so we are now arresting people NOW Shocking

[Meadow1203]

I thought this was wind up but sadly it is true. A 73 year old retired nurse has been arrested and put in handcuffs because she took her own mother out of a care home. She has not had proper contact for 9 months and her poor 97 year old mum was ailing, she wanted to bring her home to care for her. Wow just wow how have we come to this.

Well if a teacher tries to stop me seeing my child then yes I would push them aside too.

Then you'd be arrested for assault too. Unsurprisingly, schools and care homes can't let anyone randomly wander in whenever they feel like it. They are organisations with specific safeguarding duties and it is necessary for family members to follow correct procedures in order to collect or see those inside.

@Motherofthreequeens

Miss Ashton said her family had 'tried to go through all the official channels' by writing to MPs and Public Health England but nothing had been done

She claimed that, after her grandmother was admitted to hospital during the first lockdown, relatives requested that she did not go back to the care home but she was neverthless discharged back to the home

She did try and go through the ‘proper channels’

This elderly woman is a human being, she would have not wanted to spend the last part of her life in rapid decline separated from a family that love her very much. She probably won’t last the winter. She should be with her family.

But those are not the proper channels. The proper channel requires applying for Deputyship through the Court of Protection, and the granddaughter at no point suggests that they did that. It's really easy to find that out - plenty of information on websites of the relevant charities, for instance - and indeed if she wrote to people like MPs I suspect they (or their researchers) would have told them that.

Care homes are happy for their clients to go to families and be cared for elsewhere - as long as their clients needs will be met. There is always demand for places.

If her family were able to provide for her needs then why was she in a care home? How long has she been there?

The daughter is only thinking about her own needs, not those of her parent.

@LzzyHale

There are tens of thousands of relatives struggling to care for partners, parents, and children, on a daily basis. Social Services are usually more than happy for these carers to run themselves into the ground. My mother and I were on our knees trying to look after my dad, begging for help. We got next to nothing. Interesting now, to read on this thread that relatives cant look after someone with dementia.

Exactly this. If she was self funding and her money ran out it would be a different story.

'The family who apparently didn't bother to visit for three months before lockdown? The family who don't begin to suggest that they had care arrangements in place at home, let alone what those arrangements were? The family who grabbed their mother and took her out without bothering to collect her belongings, without checking what medication she needed and when, without taking any steps to prepare their relative for this massive change in her life?'

Yes and how utterly distressing for the lady. The family need to stfu with their attention seeking interviews and just formally initiate a discharge plan.

Terrible reporting by the media as well .

The granddaughter is obviously trying to make a political point and not questioning at all why the rules are in place .

@Motherofthreequeens

Miss Ashton said her family had 'tried to go through all the official channels' by writing to MPs and Public Health England but nothing had been done

She claimed that, after her grandmother was admitted to hospital during the first lockdown, relatives requested that she did not go back to the care home but she was neverthless discharged back to the home

She did try and go through the ‘proper channels’

This elderly woman is a human being, she would have not wanted to spend the last part of her life in rapid decline separated from a family that love her very much. She probably won’t last the winter. She should be with her family.

Yes. This. They are taking her home to die with her family. What a state of affairs.

Well if a teacher tries to stop me seeing my child then yes I would push them aside too

Then you'd be arrested for assault too. Unsurprisingly, schools and care homes can't let anyone randomly wander in whenever they feel like it. They are organisations with specific safeguarding duties and it is necessary for family members to follow correct procedures in order to collect or see those inside

Well that’s the issue isn’t it.

When did careers or teachers have the right to block access to family members. I’m not talking about randomers/criminals/ or people that are suspected of abuse - I’m talking about genuine loving family.

If the school rang you up and said your small child had COVID and they were taking them to the COVID unit at hospital and you wasn’t allowed to see them accept through a window maybe - you’d be ok with that?

You wouldn’t drive up to the school to see your child, to hug them to tell them not to worry?

You wouldn’t try and get in to the hospital

• because dems da rulz?

But because these elderly people are at the end of their lives it doesn’t matter hey?

I’d push some one out of the way too if they were blocking me from leaving with my mother. Maybe the career should have just got out of the way then phoned the police instead of trying to be being a jailer. No where in their policies will it say that they have to be a human wall. I would imagine the career will have to some some training tbh.

How was the carer supposed to know what the intention was? From their viewpoint the daughter had just forced her way into the home and made for her mother. As a minimum the care worker had a responsibility to keep unauthorised intruders out.

I think the lady's family know what is best for her, This would not have happened if our stupid government had not made such ridiculous decisions. Please stop being so dramatic re the "assault" Carer had not right to stop her.

Whether you like it or not, the carer had every right to stop her. The professionals know what is best for the care of this lady, not the family who are only thinking with emotion.

This is nothing to do with the government; the decisions they’ve made have been with the care residents health and best interests in mind.

@MoonJelly

Then perhaps they felt the family could not provide the care or equipment she needed?

It’s not that simple.

I’m talking about genuine loving family. Ooh! Do they wear a badge identfying themselves as genuine?

I have listened to the interview with the Grand daughter and know the facts.

Fact v option

Fact: a thing that is known or proved to be true
Opinion: a view or judgement formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge

You know the grand daughter's opinion through reading/watching what she has said, which due to her relationship will be biased.

The facts are:

• the older lady is resident in care home
• the care home have a safeguarding responsibility for her
• the 70+ year old lady hasn't been able to visit due to Covid
• the 70+ year old lady pushed a care assistant, which is assault

@Unsure33

Terrible reporting by the media as well .

The granddaughter is obviously trying to make a political point and not questioning at all why the rules are in place .

I agree that it comes across that she's trying to make a political point here as well

But because these elderly people are at the end of their lives it doesn’t matter hey? That's the same hyperbole though, isn't it?

Tell me which is better - the home she has been in for at least 9 months or being taken away to somehwere else with no care plan, aids, meds, medical care in place?

Or is her end of life in a family home, sans meds, GP etc somehow better?

@Motherofthreequeens

Well if a teacher tries to stop me seeing my child then yes I would push them aside too

Then you'd be arrested for assault too. Unsurprisingly, schools and care homes can't let anyone randomly wander in whenever they feel like it. They are organisations with specific safeguarding duties and it is necessary for family members to follow correct procedures in order to collect or see those inside

Well that’s the issue isn’t it.

When did careers or teachers have the right to block access to family members. I’m not talking about randomers/criminals/ or people that are suspected of abuse - I’m talking about genuine loving family.

If the school rang you up and said your small child had COVID and they were taking them to the COVID unit at hospital and you wasn’t allowed to see them accept through a window maybe - you’d be ok with that?

You wouldn’t drive up to the school to see your child, to hug them to tell them not to worry?

You wouldn’t try and get in to the hospital

• because dems da rulz?

But because these elderly people are at the end of their lives it doesn’t matter hey?

And how are care home workers supposed to be able to tell which people demanding to take their residents away are able to care for them? Is it the ones who shout loudest, or who shove them - is that what should hold sway over safeguarding issues?

This elderly woman is a human being, she would have not wanted to spend the last part of her life in rapid decline separated from a family that love her very much.

You have no idea if this is true. If she is unable to make her own decisions someone else has to make them for her. And in England (possibly whole of UK) that isn't automatically next of kin. If you want your daughter / partner / whoever to take over decisions should you lose the ability to do it yourself, you need to set out the arrangements while you are capable of making decisions. Personally, I have an advanced decision which hands that power to my mum.

@Redwinestillfine

I hadn't realised that care home residents couldn't discharge themselves (or have their next of kin discharge them). It would definitely make me think twice about entering a care home myself and I would certainly ask my parents to think very carefully if they were minded to ever.

Care homes are not prisons! Sadly some people with dementia, as it appears in this case, no longer have capacity to make decisions. Next of kin have a responsibility to show that they can care properly for their relative ie all the required equipments, medications etc not to mention considering whether they have sufficient capacity to physically care for the person. It is definitely not appropriate to rock up for a visit and decide on the spur of the moment that they are going to snatch gran and taker home

"I think the lady's family know best..."

I wonder how many of the gun ho posters would confirm they'd trust EVERY single member of their (loving) family to act in their interests and there wouldn't be a single bonkers/selfish/attention seeking/idiotic family member who could claim to be a loving family member. FWIW, I absolutely wouldn't and judging by all the narcissist and other MN threads, I'd be surprised.

I have some sympathy with this woman. Ashya King’s parents also came across as odd, but they got their son a treatment that worked.

For goodness sake, not that myth again. The treatment that worked was the removal of his brain tumour by the NHS hospital from which the parent removed their child. The argument was about follow up treatment through proton beam therapy: the advantage of PBT is that it normally causes less damage than conventional radiotherapy because it is more targeted, but that advantage didn't apply here because the size and complexity of the tumour meant that the areas targeted by the therapy would have been no smaller than those covered by conventional therapy. It has been established by independent investigation that, by depriving their child of chemotherapy at the optimum time, the parents substantially reduced his chances of recovery.

It's really quite scary how credulous people are.

@Motherofthreequeens

But care homes are not schools, they are full of the MOST vulnerable people as far as this virus is concerned .

The government were slated for not protecting them and now they are they are wrong again .

As I said I lost relatives in a care home to covid and I did not blame the government , I blamed the virus ,and the new strain is highly contagious.
And carriers can be asymptomatic.

So testing and possibly fogging of meeting rooms and PPE is the answer. So perhaps relatives should club together and pay for tests , there are ones available, and fogging machines and talk to the managers. The government does not run most of these homes.

'because dems da rulz? But because these elderly people are at the end of their lives it doesn’t matter hey?'

'Dems da rulz'

Look, as a pp said we don't own our elderly relatives and cannot just remove them from care homes when we feel like it. It is a safeguarding issue. Nothing to do with 'da rulz'. You also can't assault staff. I'm surprised the 73 yr old is a retired nurse (I bet she isn't), surely she should know this very basic stuff.

A couple of things struck me about this. Firstly I think people should pay very close attention with this case. The family have power of attorney for her financial affairs but not power of attorney for her health and wellbeing. For those that don't know you have to pay separately for these. This means that the state took over full control of what happened to this lady and can make decision without the family.

Secondly the 70 year old daughter was handcuffed and put in the police car. A complete over reaction in my view. There seems to be an inability to use common sense and rational thought when these situations arise. The police and many other government services have been reduced to applying a fixed set of procedures to every incident even when it is completely inappropriate.

@ChloeCrocodile

Yes correct . I have POA for financial and medical.

Still not final rights to decide everything though .

When did careers or teachers have the right to block access to family members.

Teachers have the right to block access to the premises. They can't keep a child on site if a parent wants to collect them.

Care homes / hospitals etc have a legal duty to act in the best interests of the patient even if the family disagree. Unless the patient has an advance decision or lasting power of attorney in place granting someone else the right to make decisions on their behalf.