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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

so we are now arresting people NOW Shocking

673 replies

Meadow1203 · 05/11/2020 11:37

I thought this was wind up but sadly it is true. A 73 year old retired nurse has been arrested and put in handcuffs because she took her own mother out of a care home. She has not had proper contact for 9 months and her poor 97 year old mum was ailing, she wanted to bring her home to care for her. Wow just wow how have we come to this.

OP posts:
slashlover · 05/11/2020 13:30

Well if a teacher tries to stop me seeing my child then yes I would push them aside too.

Does this count for ex-DHs too? If someone posted their ex-DH had pushed a teacher to see a child then there would be uproar in favour of the poster.

MoonJelly · 05/11/2020 13:31

@Halliehallie9828

I don’t blame the women for shoving the care worker. If I wanted to take a parent home as I could do a better job then what they are doing then it’s your own fault if your going to stand in my way and try to stop me.
Where does it say the ex-nurse in her 70s could do a better job than the care home? There isn't the remotest suggestion that that was the case. Rather the reverse, given that they admit this wasn't planned so she clearly wouldn't have had all the necessary specialist equipment at home all set up and ready.
CentrifugalBumblePuppy · 05/11/2020 13:33

I’d love to go & grab my Dad from his care home, but I won’t, because although he has no mental deterioration or disease like dementia, he has complex physical care needs. We have a good relationship with his care team (and all his unit staff) so know he is in the best possible place for his own safety & security.

Not only was this family abusive & assaulted a care worker, no doubt the Grandmother they attempted to liberate will be traumatised. There is a delicate balance with loss of liberty versus maintaining a ‘normal’ life via a solid legal framework when your relative enters a care home, you can’t just liberate a relative. That’s without the possibility that they’ve silently infected both the care staff & residents.

What this family did is misguided at best & dangerous at worst. We saw how families lost elderly loved ones in his home in the first wave of this horrible disease.

His home locked down 2 weeks prior to the March lockdown. Care staff left their families & stayed at the home. We saw the GP mask, put on a jumpsuit, gown, 2 pairs of gloves, masks, visor & boots to do her weekly GP rounds. Then disinfect her whole outfit before entering the home. When we could see our Dad (outside) it’s distanced, no touching, masked (not ideal conditions to chat to an elderly relative with hearing loss!), with temp checks & 10 min visits. Even then, the virus got a foothold & it’s terrifying as a relative to be told, “Just letting you know there have been positive cases on his ward.”

People who think what this family did make them heroes are idiots who need to let their heads lead the conversation, not their hearts.

AntiHop · 05/11/2020 13:33

This story is a perfect example of how it's so much easier to believe a simplistic lie, rather than bother to spend time learning the truth, which was rather more complicated.

Simple lie "I was arrested for simply wanting to care for my mother at home."

Truth: the family have admitted this was a spontaneous decision, with no planning in place. As I know from my own mother who had dementia, you need a lot of specialist equipment to care for someone with a advanced dementia eg a special mattress to avoid bed sores, specialist soft food with the appropriate SALT assessment, bed rails, special mats for moving someone, hoist, wheelchair. Plus as others have explained above, there was a legal order in place (dols) which my mum had too. You can't just ignore the law. You also need more than one person to do it, as care would be round the clock.

BrumBoo · 05/11/2020 13:33

OP why do you seem to think that anyone that disagrees either has not had the same life experiences as you, or is an awful person who doesn't care about the elderly. What over emotive nonsense.

I actually started to think the OP was goading, but I've just checked and I actually recognise them. This is the op who chose their abusive partner, despite the fact he assaulted her son. Moved to France with him, that's why there's guilt over not seeing her dad in a British care home.

Sorry, I know bringing up poster history is not ok but in a case where the OP is judging the morality of others it may be prevalent.

MoonJelly · 05/11/2020 13:33

@Halliehallie9828

What a ridiculous thing to say. Shall we start shoving teachers as well? And nurses? And shop-workers, if we feel like it?

Well if a teacher tries to stop me seeing my child then yes I would push them aside too.

Don’t really know what a shop keeper is going to have that i would need though...

But no-one suggests that anyone was stopping the daughter and granddaughter from seeing the resident. Indeed, the home was actively facilitating it. Where on earth are you getting all of this from?
BrumBoo · 05/11/2020 13:34

Also explains why the op is quite happy to excuse the assault part of this story.

CherryPavlova · 05/11/2020 13:35

Its all about capacity consent and best interests. Most people do not have any right to march an elderly relative out of the care home unless the relative has LPA or the person has capacity and makes their own decision to leave.
You can't just abduct a person. A qualified nurse is required to know that. If they do not have LPA , they have absolutely no right to make that decision and its pretty shabby behaviour, which potentially places the elderly person at risk.
Most people in a care home require twenty four hour care. One person cannot usually provide that safely.
Pushing someone acting in the persons best interests is entirely unacceptable and even worse if the person doing the assault is a nurse who should know and act better.

VettiyaIruken · 05/11/2020 13:36

@BrumBoo

OP why do you seem to think that anyone that disagrees either has not had the same life experiences as you, or is an awful person who doesn't care about the elderly. What over emotive nonsense.

I actually started to think the OP was goading, but I've just checked and I actually recognise them. This is the op who chose their abusive partner, despite the fact he assaulted her son. Moved to France with him, that's why there's guilt over not seeing her dad in a British care home.

Sorry, I know bringing up poster history is not ok but in a case where the OP is judging the morality of others it may be prevalent.

Bloody hell!
makingmammaries · 05/11/2020 13:37

Those speaking of the “proper channels” - none of those channels are agile enough to assess families and get old people out of the homes fast enough to avoid this second wave, which will enter the institutional homes via the carers and kill thousands of old people.
I have some sympathy with this woman. Ashya King’s parents also came across as odd, but they got their son a treatment that worked.

ShowingOut · 05/11/2020 13:37

This is so important, from @AntiHop:

You also need more than one person to do it, as care would be round the clock.

People with dementia and who are fall risks need 24 hour care. Care homes have night staff on duty. How is this impulsive daughter planning to look after her mother all night, every night?

MoonJelly · 05/11/2020 13:38

I think the lady's family know what is best for her

Really? The family who apparently didn't bother to visit for three months before lockdown? The family who don't begin to suggest that they had care arrangements in place at home, let alone what those arrangements were? The family who grabbed their mother and took her out without bothering to collect her belongings, without checking what medication she needed and when, without taking any steps to prepare their relative for this massive change in her life?

Come off it, OP.

ShowingOut · 05/11/2020 13:39

@makingmammaries

Those speaking of the “proper channels” - none of those channels are agile enough to assess families and get old people out of the homes fast enough to avoid this second wave, which will enter the institutional homes via the carers and kill thousands of old people. I have some sympathy with this woman. Ashya King’s parents also came across as odd, but they got their son a treatment that worked.
The daughter has had months to get home care in place. And yet she hasn't...
AntiHop · 05/11/2020 13:39

I do completely understand how upsetting it is for people in the care homes and their families not being able to see each other. But what choice to do they have? If a visitor passes covid to someone there, it could literally kill people. If the british public could do a better job of reducing covid transmission, like wearing a mask properly and not letting their noses hang out, maybe the care homes wouldn't have needed to be so strict.

Sirzy · 05/11/2020 13:39

@makingmammaries

Those speaking of the “proper channels” - none of those channels are agile enough to assess families and get old people out of the homes fast enough to avoid this second wave, which will enter the institutional homes via the carers and kill thousands of old people. I have some sympathy with this woman. Ashya King’s parents also came across as odd, but they got their son a treatment that worked.
Then that is why we stop the movement. We certainly don’t rush to get people into places where the correct assessments haven’t been able to be done to ensure it is a safe and secure environment for them.

Care homes have now been able to get procedures in place as best as possible to protect their residents. Relatives like those in this case are putting that at risk

JollyHolly30 · 05/11/2020 13:40

I wasn't surprised to hear the grand daughter is an actress with the whole dramatic 'we will fight for you' line...
I can't believe some of the deluded, sensationalist comments on this thread. Very happy to read some sensible people highlighting that there are proper ways to go about discharging a relative from this setting.

I don't think they portrayed themselves in a very good light on the TV interview either.
What a selective report of the story this original post is.

ShowingOut · 05/11/2020 13:41

I would like to say here, that my grandfather's care home has had no Covid. All the carers were asked to socially isolate long before the lockdown.

The only people who were at risk of bringing Covid into the home were the selfish visitors who sneakily hugged their relations, and caused the visiting rules for all of us to be tightened.

makingmammaries · 05/11/2020 13:42

Care homes have now been able to get procedures in place as best as possible to protect their residents.

Procedures such as? When carers are living with school age children, the risk is massive.

Wingedharpy · 05/11/2020 13:45

A 97 year old person with dementia is not deteriorating because they haven't hugged family for 9 months.

They are deteriorating because they are 97 and they have the progressively worsening condition of dementia.

NerrSnerr · 05/11/2020 13:45

Procedures such as? When carers are living with school age children, the risk is massive

Care home staff in my county are tested for Covid weekly or fortnightly depending on the home.

Sweettea1 · 05/11/2020 13:45

She should of gone down the correct root care plans an medications need putting in place its not the fact she wanted her mum home its the fact she had not spoken with the home an sorted a plan set a date to take her home. she is a nurse she should know you can not just take people out with no plans or even speaking about it.

MoonJelly · 05/11/2020 13:46

I assume they have done window visits and chatted on the phone at some point to know how she is.

Where do you get that from, @Halliehallie9828? The granddaughter is quoted as saying repeatedly that they hadn't seen their relative for 9 months. As pointed out, that doesn't account for the time before lockdown. It is indeed the case that most care homes have been allowing window visits for several weeks, so if that is the case with this home they haven't explained why they didn't visit earlier. Nor have they elaborated on whether they were offered anything like Zoom chats and whether they took that offer up.

makingmammaries · 05/11/2020 13:48

Care home staff in my county are tested for Covid weekly or fortnightly depending on the home.

An infected person can infect plenty of others in the course of a week. Testing like that is a great way to find out which old people have been exposed to Covid, but that won’t save them.

GabsAlot · 05/11/2020 13:48

so its made the news now not the whole story of course

GetOffYourHighHorse · 05/11/2020 13:49

'I can't believe some of the deluded, sensationalist comments on this thread.'

Yes and the sensationalist comments in the media all this 'arrested for taking granny home!' Bollocks.

I would love to hear the care home's side of the story. Of course you can't just march in and remove vulnerable people, it is a huge safeguarding issue and the home has a duty of care. Why didn't the family follow procedure and remove her from the care home in the correct way, they aren't prisoners but staff need to know the correct care is available wherever they are being taken.