so we are now arresting people NOW Shocking

[Meadow1203]

I thought this was wind up but sadly it is true. A 73 year old retired nurse has been arrested and put in handcuffs because she took her own mother out of a care home. She has not had proper contact for 9 months and her poor 97 year old mum was ailing, she wanted to bring her home to care for her. Wow just wow how have we come to this.

But it's more upsetting to think they are being maltreated, just because they have declined over the last nine months!

PatricaPerch Of course death is upsetting. In my last three shifts at work I’ve dealt with the sudden deaths of a teenager and a person in their 40’s.

Elderly people deteriorating and passing away whilst upsetting for the family, is not unexpected and it’s not heartless to say that.

because when it is your own family it is upsetting?

Everyone finds it upsetting that their elderly relatives will decline and die.

Should we pretend that age-related deterioration does not exist on account of that?

And I say that as someone with a gran in her 90’s that’s in a home. She’s in such a state that it would be far kinder to her if she passed away and whilst I will be sad obviously I will be relieved for her.

She has dementia so severe that she has no idea her daughter (my mum) died.

So they could see her but not face to face.
They had concerns she was deteriorating. The lady is 97 and has a hospital admission in the first lockdown.
They went for a visit.
The daughter pushed into the care home and hugged the 97 yo lady. Took control of the wheel chair and just kept going.
When she had no plan. When she's legally not responsible or in charge. When she had no idea of her mother's medical needs.

Hell she didn't even announce e she came to take her mother home.

It was on a whim.

I'd be furious is the care home DIDN'T call the police and allowed a 97 yo lady that they were legally responsible for to be taken out of the care home on a whim. Even if it's by her own daughter.

@PatriciaPerch

People aren't rational though are they, when they are upset or overwhelmed. I suppose in normal situations (non pandemic) a family member would be led away to another room and be able to grieve a bit or talk and that face to face contact makes all the difference to people. Oh it is very hard :( trusting people with your loved ones, losing some sort of grip, worrying. No one is a robot I think alot of people seem on hyper alert hyper vigilant, oh I don't know. It is just very sad I have turned into my own mother

You're not wrong. It is all very sad.

Is the care home meeting her needs if she is declining.

It would be mildly surprising if a 97 year old with dementia wasn't declining, wherever she was. There is no cure for dementia.

What possible reason would the carehome have to keep the mother in a place where because she can’t see her family she is so much worse off.

What is your evidence for that? This family hadn't apparently bothered to visit her in the three months prior to lockdown. Most care homes have been allowing socially distanced visits since around July, yet this family waiting until October to take advantage of that. Most care homes have also been allowing online "visits" but it sounds very much as if the family hasn't bothered with that either, given that they say they hadn't seen their relative at all. So what makes you so sure that she would be better off with her family?

As for the care home's motivation, they have a duty of care. That means they have to protect the residents from infection, and they can't let someone break in and potentially bring the virus int o the home. They also have a duty of care to this particular resident, which includes not letting her be taken off at whim by someone who blatantly had no plan in place for meeting her care and health needs.

@ComeOnBabyHauntMyBubble

So they could see her but not face to face. They had concerns she was deteriorating. The lady is 97 and has a hospital admission in the first lockdown. They went for a visit. The daughter pushed into the care home and hugged the 97 yo lady. Took control of the wheel chair and just kept going. When she had no plan. When she's legally not responsible or in charge. When she had no idea of her mother's medical needs.

Hell she didn't even announce e she came to take her mother home.

It was on a whim.

I'd be furious is the care home DIDN'T call the police and allowed a 97 yo lady that they were legally responsible for to be taken out of the care home on a whim. Even if it's by her own daughter.

Agree- all this appears to have been done to satisfy the needs and emotions of the daughter and granddaughter - to hell with the well going of the elderly lady. No planning, no care plan just grab and run

Haven't managed to read the whole thread yet (but I know a lot of people are saying yabu and I agree) I'm so tired of the "all carers are abusive and evil narrative peddled by the media, because of the minority of bad carers. Dont get me wrong ive seen some shit carers and companies (the issue was mostly management treating staff badly) but the good ones far outweigh the bad ones. I can look at this from both sides. My grandad has dementia and is in a care home, its been tough not seeing him, however the staff have been brilliant, kept us informed and facilitated window visits where possible. Cant speak highly enough of them.

Ive also been a carer for a vunerable man, with a challenging family. If you spoke to this is family, you'd be told that we (the team) were all evil, abusive, not doing things she wanted, not looking after the client properly, we should all be sacked etc. In reality this parent wasn't acting in the clients best interests and was very controlling. They tried to take away his independence by taking away his bank card, would take away his choice (ring up every morning and tell us what clothes she wanted him to wear) call and email around 10x a day, at times she knew were difficult (mornings when we were getting other clients ready, 11pm knowing they were in bed etc), barge into the house any time they liked, getting in other clients faces and going in their bedrooms, setting up random strange tests for staff, throw verbal abuse at staff,driving by the house at night, and making bizarre demands of staff which were undignified for us and the client, like asking us to sit in the bathroom and sing to the client while he was on the toilet. But to anyone she moaned about us to, would think we were awful, but there are 2 sides to every story. Eventually they removed the client from our care to care for them at home. 6 months letter they begged us to take the client back as they couldn't cope. The carehome in this situation won't be able to defend themselves either, as they have a duty to keep things confidential, so the only side you hear is the family which is going to be emotive.

Presumably the care home should have magical powers to stop any age-related decline of near-centenarians

Hang on - a sharp decline should not be seen an an inevitable process of getting old. I’ve seen it with my DGM who luckily doesn’t need to go in a home. Isolating over kick down added years on to a very active women in her 80 who still played darts in her local pub. She looks frail now. We’d only just got her walking back up and now we’ve gone in to another.

My friends mothers looks unrecognisable after four months in a care home. I couldn’t believe it when I seen a photo of her.

The Alzheimer’s society have already done an article on the shocking levels of decline whilst being isolated. They have been demanding along side with One Dementia Voice that designated family carers are prioritised for safe, regular testing, just like Key Workers, and are seen as an equal partners in care, so they can visit loved ones with dementia in care homes.

These people are not dead or dying. They are still very much alive. Some of the posters on here are fucking awful. Hopefully your kids so t out you in a home one day and not give to shits ‘cos old people die anyway’

Also it’s down to the LA if visits were allowed. Some LA started to allow visits Some didn’t. So to the poster who asked why they ‘hadn’t bothered to visit’ this is probably why.

Family visits are very very important to these elderly residents.

www.alzheimers.org.uk/news/2020-07-30/lockdown-isolation-causes-shocking-levels-decline-people-dementia-who-are-rapidly

Here’s a link if anyone can be bothered to read it. And just remember they might be old but they are not dead yet!

You really can't compare an active woman of 80 with a 97 year old with advanced dementia.

My elderly relative in a care home is 87 with advanced dementia. She has been in a home for nearly 4 years, she has had wonderful care, she wouldn't eat at home and her weight dropped drastically, the home got her eating and she had no sense of day or night and sometimes had 3 breakfasts and sometimes had dinner at 2 am. She is declining though, she has had dementia for 10 years and decline is inevitable.

@ancientgran

You really can't compare an active woman of 80 with a 97 year old with advanced dementia.

My elderly relative in a care home is 87 with advanced dementia. She has been in a home for nearly 4 years, she has had wonderful care, she wouldn't eat at home and her weight dropped drastically, the home got her eating and she had no sense of day or night and sometimes had 3 breakfasts and sometimes had dinner at 2 am. She is declining though, she has had dementia for 10 years and decline is inevitable.

Who was also admitted to hospital during the first lockdown.

Yes she presumably has other health issues.

You have got to take into account that seeing your relative less (albeit, with FaceTime calls, if they engage with tech) is going to mean they appear to decline more. I get this with people who see my parents once in 6 months and say “oh haven’t they got a lot worse” but as I’m seeing them weekly I don’t notice gradual changes so much.

Hang on - a sharp decline should not be seen an an inevitable process of getting old.

We only have the granddaughter's word for it that there was any decline; and in any event, if she hadn't seen her relative for nine months she's bound to notice a difference.

We do not know the full story.
Maybe there were safeguarding concerns.
Maybe the mother expressed she didn't want to go or lacks capacity, or is sectioned or under a court order to remain in the home against her will.
Without full facts, impossible to comment.

@VinylDetective

A lot of care homes closed to visitors well before lockdown.

I presume this was in response to my question about no visit for nine months.

I would be very surprised if the care home closed to visitors while coronavirus was not known to be in the UK.

If she was so concerned about caring for her mother at home then why was she in a care home in the first place? Seriously, there must have been other ways of going about this - you can't just barge into a home and insist that you are taking someone out there and then. Neither can you assault a staff member who tries to stop you - her mother was the responsibility of the care home. Just because she's a retired nurse it doesn't mean she is capable of dealing with all her mother's needs, which are likely to be complex.

The woman's daughter ( lady in care homes grand daughter) thought it was weird and that her mum was a bit unhinged quite clearly too.

This elderly woman is a human being, she would have not wanted to spend the last part of her life in rapid decline separated from a family that love her very much. She probably won’t last the winter. She should be with her family.

People with dementia are often very distressed when taken away from what they consider their home, in this case the care home, even when by family and for a short time. These women were thinking of their own interests, not the mother/grandmother. As for not lasting the winter, she's 97, would that really be so surprising? A bit of common sense has to be applied.

fb.watch/1AFcER-Xdu/

LBC interview with the mother and daughter

Neither are unhinged and spoke very eloquently in this interview.

Sad to see the character assassinations to justify this but not unexpected..

They did have power of attorney over her but wasn’t aware they needed a separate one for welfare.

And tbh not many people do.