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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

so we are now arresting people NOW Shocking

673 replies

Meadow1203 · 05/11/2020 11:37

I thought this was wind up but sadly it is true. A 73 year old retired nurse has been arrested and put in handcuffs because she took her own mother out of a care home. She has not had proper contact for 9 months and her poor 97 year old mum was ailing, she wanted to bring her home to care for her. Wow just wow how have we come to this.

OP posts:
SinisterBumFacedCat · 05/11/2020 14:53

What an idiotic OP. It is really not possible to suddenly care for an elderly relative with advanced Dementia who has already reached the stage where they are living in a care home, unless you can find the right drugs to keep you awake 24/7, never leave the house and are willing to kiss your MH goodbye. Yes, I know all about dementia, both parents, different stages, lucky me! I’m not going to assault the very people who care for my DF.

sweetgingercat · 05/11/2020 14:53

Yes. This family were very much in the wrong. They need to get POA health and welfare and set up facilities at home. Being a nurse is not enough. Their mother may need physio, speech and language help for monitoring. She may be taking medicines, they might need special equipment such as a hoist or a mattress alarm or an anti bed-sore mattress to make sure she doesn't harm herself by falling out of bed at night. And they've blown it now, because they'll have to deal with far greater restrictions because they demonstrated how irresponsible they were by trying to whisk her out of the hospital. It was very wrong.

slashlover · 05/11/2020 14:55

Teachers have the right to block access to the premises. They can't keep a child on site if a parent wants to collect them.

So the mothers who come on here for help because they fear that their ex/estranged husband will try to take the kids from school should just be told that if the parent wants to collect them then they can?

PatriciaPerch · 05/11/2020 14:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Nottherealslimshady · 05/11/2020 14:58

If they thought they could do a better job of looking after her than a care home then why put her in a care home?

How on earth could a 73 year old retired nurse be capable of fully caring for an elderly frail lady with advanced dementia? It takes a team of professionals to provide round the clock care. How is she going to wash her? Take her to the toilet? Keep her safe at night when she wakes up? It could have gone so horribly wrong.
If they had evidence or even suspicions she was being abused they should have gone through the proper channels, but I'd have understood more the need to get her out. But they took her out of her care setting because they WANTED to spend time with her.
And they put the other patients at risk by doing so.
And they dont even have power of attorney over her healthcare. They had no right to remove her.

derxa · 05/11/2020 14:58

@Kaiserin

There's a lot of naivety (or is it dishonesty?) in this thread.

When it comes to safeguarding, relatives obviously can't always be trusted to act in the best interest of their dependents, be they an old person or a child.

But the same could be said about "professionals" and institutions.
These do tend to be a lot better at covering their collective arses, though, so they can fail a lot of vulnerable people very badly for a very long time before any whistle-blower rings the alarm bell, and any inquiries ensues, and lessons be learnt, etc.

Blind faith in institutions (schools, hospitals, care homes, ...) can be lethal for the vulnerable people in their care. Nanny state does NOT know best. It's made of fallible people with a vested financial interests in their job being as easy as possible and their cock ups never, ever being picked up.

Allowing a care home to decide what's best for an old person sounds like an obvious conflict of interest: they have a clear financial incentive in keeping the person in and cashing in the care home fees.
Similarly relatives could have vested financial interests (e.g. if they are due to inherit).
Surely an independent third-party would be more suitable?

Well said
MrsTwitcher · 05/11/2020 14:59

Not all carehomes are privately run, we won't hear the homes side of the story because, quite rightly, they are protecting their vulnerable residents. Being a retired 73yo nurse is irrelevant, the poor women is in a carehome for a reason otherwise she would already be at home with her family caring for her. I think this was really irresponsible, the carehome staff have a right to work in peace and safety and it will be interesting to see what the outcome will be now, whether she stays in the home or goes back to her family eventually. Presumably the family have made all the necessary plans and have equipment, staff, assessments, community teams involved so that she is safe.

SinisterBumFacedCat · 05/11/2020 15:00

In the video the granddaughter had no regulars for the confusion and distress that they had caused due to their dramatics. She was much more interested in politicising the situation.

Mustbe3ormorecharacters · 05/11/2020 15:00

@Meadow1203

If a care worker tried to stop me taking mu dad out of his home if I wanted to take him I would have shoved her too. The woman is retired nurse and can take care of her needs. Really please don not try and justify this
And you would be arrested you absolute moron.
GetOffYourHighHorse · 05/11/2020 15:01

'My friend has asked if she can put a camera in the room so she can see her mum ( after a few issues) and they have refused.'

'So I should hope. If I were in this situation, I would utterly hate the thought that whoever had access to that camera feed could watch me at any time, even when I was being undressed and washed.'

Exactly! People in care homes are entitled to privacy, how ridiculous that anyone would think installing a webcam would be a good idea.

Every hcp I know, be it in the acute setting or care homes are doing everything they can to ensure relatives have contact with their family via phonecalls, face time or brief outdoor visits.

MoodieMare · 05/11/2020 15:04

So care staff should just allow anyone who claims to be a relative to barge into a home full of vulnerable and frail people then? There's been reports of two homes near me broken into recently. Someone pushes past me to gain access to the unit I work on I'll be calling the police and following the procedure for an intruder.
This has been done for sensationalist headlines, using a confused and vulnerable elderly lady to do so and that's disgusting.
What that woman did was present herself as an intruder, under normal circumstances I would have called the police, never mind while the government have put rules in place regarding access to care homes.

Didn't take long for care staff to go from being heroes back to villains did it?!
There's another side to care, the side no one wants to talk about or admit to.
The side where elderly and frail people cannot cope and their families don't have the time to care for them properly. The side where residents don't get visits for weeks on end even in normal times because their families are too busy.
The side where people spend Christmas day effectively with a bunch of strangers because their families can't meet their needs for even a day. The side where care workers dress up and sing and dance on Christmas Day, feed someone their lunch or hold their hand, see to their personal care, put their presents away, some of which will have been bought by the care staff themselves, watch a Christmas film with them - while the residents families have their own Christmas and the care workers family get on with Christmas without them. The side where a resident reaches up and cups your face and smiles, wishing you a merry Christmas and thanking you for making an effort to make Christmas even a bit enjoyable.
The side where care workers not only do the practical things but comfort people who haven't seen their families for weeks at the families choice, with "They might come tomorrow".

I too think the government have had more than enough time to put something in place to enable visiting to go ahead and be as safe as possible. I too think it's awful that it hasn't been done sooner, that people have just been forgotten. But I'm powerless, even more powerless than the families because I have a legal duty of care, despite my personal feelings. If I allow a visit I'm not supposed to, if I allow a family member to take someone out that shouldn't be happening according to social services or public health or the local authority, and that person comes to harm, society is going to forget all this "family have the right to do it" and I'll be held responsible for that happening.

Most care staff are seeing the impact this is having every day, but we're not allowed to simply follow what rules we like and disregard those we don't. We wear full PPE, and although it's perfectly legal for me to do so, knowing how vulnerable our people are, I'm limiting my personal life to limit my exposure to the virus and the risk I'll bring it in. I'm being tested every week, I'm doing everything within my power to keep it out of our place, and so are my colleagues.
It's saddening, demoralising and down right offensive that yet again, care workers are being slated over this.
Families should be enlisting the help of the care staff in getting things put in place legally and safely for visits, not turning against them and assaulting them. But then that wouldn't be so sensationalist would it? Cooperation doesn't sell papers does it.

LemonTT · 05/11/2020 15:04

@Motherofthreequeens

Miss Ashton said her family had 'tried to go through all the official channels' by writing to MPs and Public Health England but nothing had been done

She claimed that, after her grandmother was admitted to hospital during the first lockdown, relatives requested that she did not go back to the care home but she was neverthless discharged back to the home

She did try and go through the ‘proper channels’

This elderly woman is a human being, she would have not wanted to spend the last part of her life in rapid decline separated from a family that love her very much. She probably won’t last the winter. She should be with her family.

MPs and PHE are not the proper channels. An ex-nurse would know this.
ShowingOut · 05/11/2020 15:05

@PatriciaPerch

Don't you wonder why this daughter only has a Power Of Attorney for her mother's financial affairs, but not her health and care?

because it is expensive and it is difficult to obtain without appointing a specialist lawyer

I know what dols is too and I know best interests meetings just aren't happening because of covid atm. I imagine a nurse would never place her Mother into a home that aren't transparent and didn't have an open visiting policy. It's alarming to lots of relatives and it really isn't a stretch of the imagination to figure out why

It's just two forms instead of one, and a bit more money.

And it's clear that this "ex nurse" hasn't bothered to do any of the actual admin work to set up care for her mother at home. Just grab her and go on the telly, much more effective Hmm

AntiHop · 05/11/2020 15:06

@PatriciaPerch

Don't you wonder why this daughter only has a Power Of Attorney for her mother's financial affairs, but not her health and care?

because it is expensive and it is difficult to obtain without appointing a specialist lawyer

I know what dols is too and I know best interests meetings just aren't happening because of covid atm. I imagine a nurse would never place her Mother into a home that aren't transparent and didn't have an open visiting policy. It's alarming to lots of relatives and it really isn't a stretch of the imagination to figure out why

You are wrong about this @PatriciaPerch

It is no more expensive or difficult to put in place power of attorney for health and welfare than for finances, if it is done by the person themselves, when they have capacity. No need for a specialist solicitor. So presumably the lady in question didn't want to appoint anyone to have power of attorney for her health and welfare, only her finances.

Or, perhaps when the lady in question put power of attorney in place years ago, when health and welfare power of attorney didn't exist. This was the case when my mum did power of attorney many years ago. There was only power of attorney for finances.

Doing it after someone has lost capacity is more expensive and complicated.

VinylDetective · 05/11/2020 15:08

The professionals know what is best for the care of this lady, not the family who are only thinking with emotion

I find it incredibly dangerous that people think this way. Blind belief in institutions is a very, very slippery slope.

PatriciaPerch · 05/11/2020 15:09

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ShowingOut · 05/11/2020 15:11

@PatriciaPerch

It is thousands to get deputyship for health for someone who hasn't got capacity
But we are talking about a POA, not Deputyship.

If the daughter wanted to care for her mother at home, then why had she made no effort? No Care Plan meetings, not discussed it with the lady's GP, the psyche, social services, etc. Nothing!

But, oh yeah, just grab her from the home - with none of her medication! - and take her away.

PatriciaPerch · 05/11/2020 15:11

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

GetOffYourHighHorse · 05/11/2020 15:12

'This has been done for sensationalist headlines, using a confused and vulnerable elderly lady to do so and that's disgusting.'

The daughter and granddaughter should be ashamed of themselves causing a frail vulnerable lady such distress.

'MPs and PHE are not the proper channels. An ex-nurse would know this.'

Yes I mean why PHE?? Confused. Why didn't they just ring the home and arrange a disharge date, end the contract and collect her in an orderly fashion. Or might it be that they don't want her home for good, just a little visit?!

AwaAnBileYerHeid · 05/11/2020 15:12

"But when it comes to people being hand cuffed and arrested for wanting to see their own mother then it is a very sad world we live in"

But she wasn't arrested for wanting to see her mother. She was arrested for assaulting a care worker.

ShowingOut · 05/11/2020 15:14

And, incidentally, causing a scene like this could be very upsetting and unsettling for the other residents!

But no, film it and get all the attention Hmm

IrmaFayLear · 05/11/2020 15:18

Crap crap crap. Just did exactly this for fil who lacked capacity.

What nonsense is spouted on these types of thread.

ilovesooty · 05/11/2020 15:18

@Halliehallie9828

I don’t blame the women for shoving the care worker. If I wanted to take a parent home as I could do a better job then what they are doing then it’s your own fault if your going to stand in my way and try to stop me.
Words fail me.
Motherofthreequeens · 05/11/2020 15:19

@VinylDetective

The professionals know what is best for the care of this lady, not the family who are only thinking with emotion

I find it incredibly dangerous that people think this way. Blind belief in institutions is a very, very slippery slope.

Absolutely.
Staffy1 · 05/11/2020 15:20

This has happened in the past, with people trying to get their elderly relatives out of care homes and people trying to get their autistic kids out of psychiatric hospitals when they should never have been put there in the first place. Also comparable to stopping people taking their children out of hospital for a second opinion or treatment in another country, when the local hospital is only offering treatment that would leave them brain damaged, then having police pursue them through Europe when they did manage to leave. All very sinister, I don't know why there hasn't been more outrage about it be everyone years ago.

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