Wokeness? Meaning?

[grassisjeweled]

Can someone explain in simple English what 'wokeness' means?

@Flaxmeadow

This thread mostly highlights why many people consider the term woke as meaningless as 'sheeple/snowflakes/libtard' seeing as nobody can actually pin down what it means.

I stand by my comment that it's a term mostly used by people upset that they can't be racist/sexist/homophobic anymore, it's a common defence from people who want to shut the discussion down when they get called on being bigots.

And yes, I do mean bigots

But the wokerati have very rigid definitions of what a bigot or racist is and they've already put you in that box if you date say something they consider even only slightly controversial

Vote Brexit and you're a "fascist gammon"

Be white, you must be inherently racist and if you disagree with that it's because your racist too

Be black and vote for Trump, you're not really black. You're inadequate in someway and don't know what's best for you

Show concern that womens safe spaces are being dismantled, you're a trans phobe bigot and must be cancelled

No further discussion. You have questioned the strict woke orthodoxy and must you must be hounded out. No platformed. Not allowed to speak

In discussion, it's so rigid, puritanical and po faced, but this fear of speaking out can also have extremely serious consequences

In Rotherham, Rochdale and other towns, victims of serious organised crime were left to fend for themselves because the woke authorities were scared of accusations of racism

At the Manchester bombing, a security guard was afraid to alert others of the bomber because he was worried that he would be accused of racism too.

SYP? Woke? Have you forgotten Hillsborough? They used racism as an excuse. I don’t believe for a second the SYP were arsed about upsetting Pakistanis. It was misogyny and classism at play, they wrote the girls off as a bunch of slags.

@LolaSmiles

See that word 'mostly' in there? There is a minority of people using the term to mean what you think it does, but honestly in doing so they are doing themselves a huge disservice in doing so, because it associates them with people who get upset that the 'woke' people stop them from having all their golliwogs on display And yet this thread is full of people who seem to understand exactly what people mean when joking about the woke group who seem to care quite a lot about genuine social issues; they just dislike the increasingly ridiculous attitudes of one group of activists who care more about their image than actually pushing for change.

MrsTerryPratchett
Really, really well put. 👏👏👏

There's only so many times people who fall outside the woke bubble of accepted thought can be told to sit down/shut up/educate themselves/ be called bigots or racists before they end up feeling so disengaged that they silently vote elsewhere and are ripe for certain politicians who can meet them at their anger.

Flaxmeadow You're right. It's with us or against us mentality where one side are apparently the virtuous saviours and the rest are bigots who can't handle their hatred.

I love Obama's interview he did where he talked about liking on social media not being activism. There's loads of people around the country who are concerned with social issues and doing something practical about it. If the community groups in my area are anything to go by, these people are moderate, reasonable, caring people and not a social media savvy, blue haired thought police officer in sight.

See, you probably think I’m one of the bad guys when you read my posts but I actually agree with the last point. In my local area, it was people of all backgrounds who clubbed together to save a local pool from being shut down.

And I agree that wanking incessantly on social media isnt activism, not when you’re preaching to the choir. I have friends who often share stuff about how not every person who has a period is a woman or asexuals are oppressed or whatever and I think, “Who is this aimed at?”

I freely admit I can’t be a political campaigner. I’m too emotional and irrational. Other people are better at it than me.

"Woke" is:- my views are good and right and the ones that matter, and if you don't hold the same ones and agree with me then you are evil, racist and wrong and may safely be cancelled and publicly humiliated and I can feel really good about doing that. It's not bullying or viciousness absolutely not! No way!

*Or let's go full on Harry Hill lol

"There's only one way to find out!"
FIIIGHHHHHTTTTT*

Wouldn’t be a fair fight, Quaagars
Line of second wave feminists waving HP pyjamas, chanting ‘Woman=adult human female’ and 90% of the Wokerati would literally die.

PhilSwagielka I don't.

You're spot on about social media. I think social media allows those types of people to conduct their performative concern to get more likes/pats on the back/feed their need to look a certain way.

Woke people tend to have #BeKind in their various bios but call anyone who disagrees with any of their opinions cunts.

'It’s this moral superiority and self righteousness that has turned wokeness into a joke'

This with bells on.

I think social media allows those types of people to conduct their performative concern to get more likes/pats on the back/feed their need to look a certain way.

That is more virtue signalling which is a subset of being Woke IMO.

From what I have seen is that most people who profess faux innocence of terms like Woke or IDPOL are the people who have been labelled as such on multiple occasions and instead of trying to do some self reflection pretend that it is automatically from the bigotted side.

It is this assumption of being the only purveyors of truth/reasoning/critical thinking despite them lacking all 3 themselves.

There are millions of articles from both left/right/pro/anti about all those things, it is common lexicon and has a common understanding, the only people left who struggle to understand the term are people who will have most likely labelled the Tory government as alt/hard right and 'gammon' with no sense of irony.

It's the left equivilent of the daily mail commentators, both can be discarded as having very low intellect, it's the people who want to point out the nuance in language and how it can cause division and then a couple of posts later unironically call the Tory government as alt/hard right, or the latest one is populist whilst ignore the classic populist , soubdbite driven rise of Corbyn (some of the faux niave posters on this thread are guilty of).

That is more virtue signalling which is a subset of being Woke IMO.
From what I have seen is that most people who profess faux innocence of terms like Woke or IDPOL are the people who have been labelled as such on multiple occasions and instead of trying to do some self reflection pretend that it is automatically from the bigotted side.

Same here.

But people who get annoyed or defensive about people mocking woke behaviour also, judging by this thread, also seem to hate all sorts of related terms such as cancel culture, so I'm guessing they'll also probably claim that they 'don't understand what people mean by virtue signalling because surely there's nothing wrong with saying cops shouldn't murder black people / (insert entirely mainstream view on a topic issue here)'.

It's a hard life being against almost every other group of people or viewpoints and updating your views based on the new party line.

I'm guessing they'll also probably claim that they 'don't understand what people mean by virtue signalling because surely there's nothing wrong with saying cops shouldn't murder black people / (insert entirely mainstream view on a topic issue here)'.

Yeah the motte and bailey style argument is common place, often done under the guise of faux naivety, usually by the same people who unironically think those with differing opinions are lacking in critical thinking.

I'm not at all surprised that some people don't know what "woke" means, especially considering the answers on this thread where it can mean anything (anti Tory, feminist, anti racist and my personal favourite: South Yorkshire Police🤣) but usually just means "left leaning people who don't agree with me".

Which I suppose is why it's used by people like Trump, Piers Morgan, Lawrence Fox and Toby Young. It's a catch-all insult.

Exactly lol

but usually just means "left leaning people who don't agree with me

This is something eles I've noticed. That the wokes try to steal the anti wokes terms but it doesn't have the same impact because woke is a very specific type of activist language, originating in post modern theory and critical race theory.

But I don't see the wokes as being left wing anyway, not in the traditional class war sense. They think they're left wing but usually aren't because they very rarely mention class. Infact class perspective its discouraged, especially in the USA

Wokes are more like "bleeding heart liberals". Ultra careful that they mustn't cause offence, often middle class, bourgeois if you like, a bit pearl clutchy and very easily offended .

Bleeding heart liberal is a much older term. It's a kind of grandparent to the virtual signaller

*virtue signaller

I'm not at all surprised that some people don't know what "woke" means, especially considering the answers on this thread where it can mean anything (anti Tory, feminist, anti racist and my personal favourite: South Yorkshire Police🤣) but usually just means "left leaning people who don't agree with me".

That has been very selective in what you deem critisim and not even addressed some of the more saliant posts on this thread.

To try and sum it up as 'not left leaning' shows how much you are lacking on the critical thinking front, I will bet my house that if i dig through your history you have used the term gammon, and conflate tory as being far right.

The fact you want to score points on the Jay Report also adds to you being personally offended by the term of woke.

You being personally offended is you lacking in the critical thinking skills, it isn't others that are lacking the nuance of language.

To try and sum it up as 'not left leaning' shows how much you are lacking on the critical thinking front, I will bet my house that if i dig through your history you have used the term gammon, and conflate tory as being far right.
I haven't summed anything up as not left leaning. I have not been offended by anything that has been written on this thread or even mentioned the Jay Report. And as I've just AS'd myself and have never used the word "gammon", does that mean I own your house now @Justanotherlurker?

haven't summed anything up as not left leaning.confused

and yet

(anti Tory)

anything that has been written on this thread or even mentioned the Jay Report.

and yet

and my personal favourite: South Yorkshire Police🤣

this is you trying to be nuanced in language and not understand the term Woke, despite not reasoning why south yorkshire police was even brought up in discussion.

This is motte and bailey, faux niaveity, you can carry on with the emojis, it just highlights your 'critical thinking skills'.

Not that long ago I posted on Mumsnet saying I was upset about someone screaming "NI**ER" at me. Result: two pages of pile-on about how I was a "wokester" and "wokerati" and how I was engaging in "identity politics" and "well actually I have black friends who hate identity politics" and that I was the one who was actually racist because it's racist to "see race" and that by talking about my personal experience of racism I was creating a divide and creating hostility and making white people feel uncomfortable. Oh and that Trump definitely isn't a racist how dare I say so.

The BLM threads and the various threads about black people being murdered for being black (George Floyd, Breonna Taylor, etc.) were full of people screaming "WOKERSTERS" and "VIRTUE SIGNALLERS" - these are the same posters who call George Floyd "an animal", who defended the brutal unprovoked slaying of Ahmaud Arbery by repeatedly saying "the facts aren't in, maybe he WAS a criminal" (he wasn't and there wasn't the tiniest bit of evidence or reason to suggest that he might be), who called BLM protestors "thugs" and accused them of basically murdering grannies by spreading COVID (yet those same posters defended the Neo-Nazi rallies on the grounds that they were just exercising their right to free speech).

There are a lot of posters on Mumsnet who very very strongly oppose anti-racism in any form, who throw tantrums at the very idea of POC people mentioning the existence of racism, who feel it's their moral duty as white people and "anti-wokesters" to defend and defeat any accusation of racism even if it's nothing to do with them and they don't know any of the facts, and they use multiple tactics to attack and try to shut down or gaslight anti-racism and portray anyone who is against racism as the villain. The accusation of "wokeness" or the supposed eeeeeevil suppressive "Left" is often exploited as a tool, as is the concept of trans rights which the "anti-woke" like to shoe-horn in at any opportunity.

The thought process goes like this: if you disagree with black people being murdered or if you'd rather not be called n**r then you're a "wokester Leftie"; wokester lefties believe TWAW; ergo wokester lefties hate women and want to deny women rights; ergo anyone objecting to racism is also - through a torturous Orwellian process of deduction - anti-woman and BadWrongBad and should be attacked. Period. No room for subtly. No room to accept that people hold a range of views. Forget pointing out that plenty of black people and plenty of anti-racists are also gender critical. Nope... if you're anti-racist you're an Evil Woman-Hating TWAW Leftie Wokester who MUST BE STOPPED.

@Justanotherlurker I'm not trying to be nuanced in language, I'm writing in plain English. Anti-Tory and South Yorkshire police were in a list I wrote that included feminist and anti-racist. Are you responding to what you imagine I am saying (hence you thinking that I am offended/use "gammon" to describe people) rather than what I have actually written?
you can carry on with the emojis, it just highlights your 'critical thinking skills'.
What has emoji use got to do with critical thinking skills?

Anyway PM me with details regarding the transfer of your house, I promise I'll be a really good landlady.

@GetOffYourHighHorse

Woke people tend to have #BeKind in their various bios but call anyone who disagrees with any of their opinions cunts.

'It’s this moral superiority and self righteousness that has turned wokeness into a joke'

This with bells on.

#BeKind is rubbish. Just the other day, I saw a comment defending Ryan Giggs (he’s been accused of hitting his girlfriend) and saying women don’t belong in men’s football.

He had #BeKind in his bio. 🙄

@froggygoneacourting

Not that long ago I posted on Mumsnet saying I was upset about someone screaming "NI**ER" at me. Result: two pages of pile-on about how I was a "wokester" and "wokerati" and how I was engaging in "identity politics" and "well actually I have black friends who hate identity politics" and that I was the one who was actually racist because it's racist to "see race" and that by talking about my personal experience of racism I was creating a divide and creating hostility and making white people feel uncomfortable. Oh and that Trump definitely isn't a racist how dare I say so.

The BLM threads and the various threads about black people being murdered for being black (George Floyd, Breonna Taylor, etc.) were full of people screaming "WOKERSTERS" and "VIRTUE SIGNALLERS" - these are the same posters who call George Floyd "an animal", who defended the brutal unprovoked slaying of Ahmaud Arbery by repeatedly saying "the facts aren't in, maybe he WAS a criminal" (he wasn't and there wasn't the tiniest bit of evidence or reason to suggest that he might be), who called BLM protestors "thugs" and accused them of basically murdering grannies by spreading COVID (yet those same posters defended the Neo-Nazi rallies on the grounds that they were just exercising their right to free speech).

There are a lot of posters on Mumsnet who very very strongly oppose anti-racism in any form, who throw tantrums at the very idea of POC people mentioning the existence of racism, who feel it's their moral duty as white people and "anti-wokesters" to defend and defeat any accusation of racism even if it's nothing to do with them and they don't know any of the facts, and they use multiple tactics to attack and try to shut down or gaslight anti-racism and portray anyone who is against racism as the villain. The accusation of "wokeness" or the supposed eeeeeevil suppressive "Left" is often exploited as a tool, as is the concept of trans rights which the "anti-woke" like to shoe-horn in at any opportunity.

The thought process goes like this: if you disagree with black people being murdered or if you'd rather not be called n**r then you're a "wokester Leftie"; wokester lefties believe TWAW; ergo wokester lefties hate women and want to deny women rights; ergo anyone objecting to racism is also - through a torturous Orwellian process of deduction - anti-woman and BadWrongBad and should be attacked. Period. No room for subtly. No room to accept that people hold a range of views. Forget pointing out that plenty of black people and plenty of anti-racists are also gender critical. Nope... if you're anti-racist you're an Evil Woman-Hating TWAW Leftie Wokester who MUST BE STOPPED.

People called you ‘woke’ for not wanting to be called a disgusting racist word? That’s horrible. I’m sorry you had to deal with that.

@Flaxmeadow

but usually just means "left leaning people who don't agree with me

This is something eles I've noticed. That the wokes try to steal the anti wokes terms but it doesn't have the same impact because woke is a very specific type of activist language, originating in post modern theory and critical race theory.

But I don't see the wokes as being left wing anyway, not in the traditional class war sense. They think they're left wing but usually aren't because they very rarely mention class. Infact class perspective its discouraged, especially in the USA

Wokes are more like "bleeding heart liberals". Ultra careful that they mustn't cause offence, often middle class, bourgeois if you like, a bit pearl clutchy and very easily offended .

Bleeding heart liberal is a much older term. It's a kind of grandparent to the virtual signaller

Adolph Reed argues that identity politics is really a kind of neoliberalsm, not of the left at all.

Even when its proponents believe themselves to be radicals, this antiracist politics is a professional-managerial class politics. Its adherents are not concerned with trying to generate the large, broad political base needed to pursue a transformative agenda because they are committed fundamentally to pursuit of racial parity within neoliberalism, not social transformation.

In other words, class is the only thing that matters. But where does feminism fit in? Surely there’s an intersection between class and sex?

The thought process goes like this: if you disagree with black people being murdered or if you'd rather not be called nr then you're a "wokester Leftie"; wokester lefties believe TWAW; ergo wokester lefties hate women and want to deny women rights; ergo anyone objecting to racism is also - through a torturous Orwellian process of deduction - anti-woman and BadWrongBad and should be attacked. Period. No room for subtly. No room to accept that people hold a range of views.
I think you nailed it there @froggygoneacourting.

flaxmeadow
I think you’re absolutely right about woke people not being interested in class.
They are the kind of people who say that a black, son of a solicitor and a doctor, who went to private school and Cambridge is less privileged than a white kid from a council house who went to the local comprehensive and left with no qualifications.

The sort of people (usually white, usually heterosexual) who have BLM in their handles, but do not see that they're 'All Lives Matter' when it comes to women's rights.

Ooooh
See, I take umbrage at this (aware this probably earns me another woke cookie lol)
I'm white, I'm heterosexual, I'm female, doesn't mean I can't care about people who are non of those things?
What's All Lives Matter got to do with women's rights?
Are we not allowed to be bothered about both?
Is one more worthy of a biscuit than an other?!
If we care about women's rights, does that mean we have to stop giving a fuck about trans people too?!
As I said earlier, all a big mess lol