Wokeness? Meaning?

[grassisjeweled]

Can someone explain in simple English what 'wokeness' means?

@Ineverdidmind

So open minded their brain has fallen out

Love it!

This video is a few months old, but my goodness it really hits the nail on the head over the issues of Wokeness and Cancel Culture.

It’s this moral superiority and self righteousness that has turned wokeness into a joke
It really has.

For example, most people oppose racism. They may have different ideas on how to tackle racism, but they oppose it. Most people are rational human beings who are capable of understanding that there are a many ways to resolve a situation and most people are quite comfortable having a debate with those who think or feel differently to them.

Woke people aren't like that. They have their bubble group think and decide that anyone who doesn't agree with their thoughts or approach must be racist because obviously they are right and hold the only valid beliefs.

Trying to have sensible and rational discussion with someone who is so convinced their way is right is like playing pigeon chess.

Any challenge to their view comes down to:

• yeah but obviously you're a bigot
• you seem quite angry, do you find it uncomfortable realising you're a bigot
• look people disagree with us so that proves that we are right and you are all wrong
• (the slightly more manipulative version) but, but we only care about racism... surely you can't disagree with being against racism... (insert faux naive head tilt here)... do you really think people only challenge racism to be cool?

"So open minded" but only about things that they are advocating for, that have already been given the go-ahead by the Guardian and Jamila Jamil. Completely closed minded and repulsed by any viewpoint that it not their own. So the complete opposite of open minded.

I couldn't finish the video (halfway through). It was a lot of ranting in the way the people he's opposed to also rant about people like him. Gave me a headache but I do agree with something he said re: nuanced debate.

Nuanced discussions can be quite hard to come by. Most people I've seen so far get easily confused by people who have different views about different things. Meaning, you have to pick a side and stay there. All your views must align with everything that side believe or you're an enemy who must be banished.

Seen it mostly in the racism, feminism and general political communities.

Nuanced discussions can be quite hard to come by. Most people I've seen so far get easily confused by people who have different views about different things. Meaning, you have to pick a side and stay there. All your views must align with everything that side believe or you're an enemy who must be banished
Too true, too true.

Don't forget that if you disagree with someone on topic A then you must never agree with them on topic J because they're a bad'un.

@Wearywithteens

Wokeness reminds me of the biblical account of the Pharisees. Jesus declared that for all their religious superiority, their apparent righteousness and the massive rule books they strictly adhered to, they were actually just posturing dicks (I paraphrase) who had no compassion or kindness. They cared more about their rules than humanity. They were the original woke bros.

Well put

@LolaSmiles

Nuanced discussions can be quite hard to come by. Most people I've seen so far get easily confused by people who have different views about different things. Meaning, you have to pick a side and stay there. All your views must align with everything that side believe or you're an enemy who must be banished Too true, too true.

Don't forget that if you disagree with someone on topic A then you must never agree with them on topic J because they're a bad'un.

Exactly!

I think historical figures shouldn't be played by a person of different ethnicity to the historical figure. Reason: just for accuracy. Woke/PC or not

I think that is fair enough, I'm up for historical accuracy in films and there are enough talented BAME actors out there to support this. Where it gets stupid is when articles pop up in the guardian complaining that there were not enough Indian or black actors in the film Dunkirk. A film depicting an event through the eyes of a handful of protagonists. Or another article in the guardian complaining that a disabled/motor neurone actor should have played Stephen Hawking in a Theory of Everything despite ignoring the rather important fact that half the film depicts Hawking in his youth as able bodied.

It means that you pretend to be in favour of equality and inclusion whilst also being a sexist pig.

I was around for political correctness or "PC". It was mostly concerned in the use of language, and manifested in the behaviour of broadly well-meaning but sometimes irritating people. There weren't pro-PC rallies or demonstrations and it was basically OK to speak your mind as long as you watched your tone. The woke movement is different, it argues that certain views are unacceptable and should be proscribed regardless of how they are expressed.

A lot of PC people wanted to claim moral superiority and were reacting against the hypocrisy of right-wing traditionalists like Mary Whitehouse who would seemingly become distressed by the use of the word "fuck" but was herself homophobic. There was a sense of a battle that needed to be won, an endpoint that could be reached. Various social changes in the 90s and noughties eventually made PC redundant.

Woke people are much more tribal and exclusionary, because their whole sense of moral superiority rests on them being part of the virtuous group. This creates a self-perpetuating purity spiral as the woke tribe becomes more ever more strident so that its members can continue to view themselves as different. At some point, it's likely to become so militant that people drift off to the next thing.

When it first started being used it just meant you were awake to the idea that there is social injustice, racial discrimination, feminist issues, etc.

Now it's used as an insult by people who don't like to talk about or acknowledge those things.

See also snowflake, pc culture, cancel culture, libtard...

Ah yes, snowflake always thrown about too

Now it's used as an insult by people who don't like to talk about or acknowledge those things.

No its not. Its used in irony, that those who think themselves 'woke' are actually very narrow minded, and chose to believe their own narrative even if it causes issues or takes away from others. Many 'woke' people don't like to talk about what they refuse to acknowledge when it goes against their own beliefs.

It’s when you choose to adopt an opinion based on acceptance by Twitter rather than reality.

@BrumBoo

Now it's used as an insult by people who don't like to talk about or acknowledge those things.

No its not. Its used in irony, that those who think themselves 'woke' are actually very narrow minded, and chose to believe their own narrative even if it causes issues or takes away from others. Many 'woke' people don't like to talk about what they refuse to acknowledge when it goes against their own beliefs.

Fine. Now it's used by as an insult by people who disagree with them on those things. Better?

It's when my husband goes on about promoting women in STEM, ensuring his female employees are listened to, and don't feel marginalised, undermined or uncomfortable etc ... but his sole contribution to the family home is money in the bank (I work FT!) and occasionally helping a child with homework.

Fantastic post @Wearywithteens , perfect example.

It's hilarious how people who claim to be tolerant and oh so liberal seem to have such a strong desire to stifle debate and call anyone not in their bubble a bigot

Yup. Also known as cancel culture

This thread is the gift that keeps on giving. There's so many examples of woke behaviour that comes down to 'anyone who laughs at woke people is obviously a mean bigot'.

Yup. Also known as cancel culture
Absolutely, though I'm sure someone will be along to deny this happens, after all 5 pages in people are still trying to claim that woke is an insult to attack the enlightened and everyone else is a bigot.

The only people throwing the word bigot is around is those that think "woke" are out to cancel them and using it as an insult lol

Woke to me is when you go so far to the ideological left, you start to share traits with the ideological right.

Like when moderate Labour voters get called Nazis by Momentum types. Or you are told you are literally killing people with your opinions.

The only people throwing the word bigot is around is those that think "woke" are out to cancel them and using it as an insult lol
Anyone can read between the lines of some of the comments on this thread. They're absolutely brimming with the sense that anyone who finds woke groups amusing must obviously be racist/ sexist / not care about social issues.

For example:
It's a word used by twats because they can't stand being called out for bigotry. It's a useful indicator you are discussing something with an idiot.

Now it's used as an insult by people who don't like to talk about or acknowledge those things. See also snowflake, pc culture, cancel culture, libtard..

Honestly, this thread really does highlight why people across a range of views find the woke crowd hilarious.

@LolaSmiles

The only people throwing the word bigot is around is those that think "woke" are out to cancel them and using it as an insult lol Anyone can read between the lines of some of the comments on this thread. They're absolutely brimming with the sense that anyone who finds woke groups amusing must obviously be racist/ sexist / not care about social issues.

For example:
It's a word used by twats because they can't stand being called out for bigotry. It's a useful indicator you are discussing something with an idiot.

Now it's used as an insult by people who don't like to talk about or acknowledge those things. See also snowflake, pc culture, cancel culture, libtard..

Honestly, this thread really does highlight why people across a range of views find the woke crowd hilarious.

This thread mostly highlights why many people consider the term woke as meaningless as 'sheeple/snowflakes/libtard' seeing as nobody can actually pin down what it means.

I stand by my comment that it's a term mostly used by people upset that they can't be racist/sexist/homophobic anymore, it's a common defence from people who want to shut the discussion down when they get called on being bigots.

And yes, I do mean bigots.

Doesn't insisting that large swathes of people who don't have be same opinion as you are bigoted... Make you a bigot? Based on the definition of the word.

I stand by my comment that it's a term mostly used by people upset that they can't be racist/sexist/homophobic anymore, it's a common defence from people who want to shut the discussion down when they get called on being bigots.

And yes, I do mean bigots

Congratulations for deciding that a whole bunch of people, many of whom on this thread have expressed genuine concern for social issues whilst finding woke people funny, must be bigots.

In my experience (as a centre left person concerned with social issues), I've had and seen substantially more discussions closed off by people who fall into the woke camp than the extreme right. The left is eating itself alive at the moment and one major reason for this is the rise of people who claim to be tolerant, and claim to be liberal, and claim to be open minded but are actually very narrow minded and keen to stifle debate... ... if only there was a word people could use to refer to that group...