Wokeness? Meaning?

[grassisjeweled]

Can someone explain in simple English what 'wokeness' means?

Pmsl. One side says bigot, the other says woke, let’s call the whole thing off 💃

Congratulations for deciding that a whole bunch of people, many of whom on this thread have expressed genuine concern for social issues whilst finding woke people funny, must be bigots

That's where it gets tricky isn't it, as there's nothing wrong with genuine concern for social issues, whether it takes the form of genuine concern in

massive racists getting mixed up with "concerns about immigrants"

massive homophobics getting mixed up with concerns devaluing traditional marriage if allowing gay people to marry as well,

or massive transphobia getting mixed up with concerns over Self ID......

Even the "milder genuine" concerns gets mixed up with all the outright phobes/bigots.
Then people who question or challenge even the outright blatant get called snowflake or woke as people want to carry on treating people like they always have, all in the name of "well it's my opinion"
People complaining "I'm not a bigot!"
No, most of the time people aren't, but there's just as many people who genuinely are.

@justanotherneighinparadise

Pmsl. One side says bigot, the other says woke, let’s call the whole thing off 💃

Or let's go full on Harry Hill lol

"There's only one way to find out!"
FIIIGHHHHHTTTTT

This is my my favourite video ever that sums up the futility of arguments on the internet. I never tire of it 🤣

mobile.twitter.com/ozzymanreviews/status/1086224450918334469?lang=en

@LolaSmiles

I stand by my comment that it's a term mostly used by people upset that they can't be racist/sexist/homophobic anymore, it's a common defence from people who want to shut the discussion down when they get called on being bigots.

And yes, I do mean bigots

Congratulations for deciding that a whole bunch of people, many of whom on this thread have expressed genuine concern for social issues whilst finding woke people funny, must be bigots.

In my experience (as a centre left person concerned with social issues), I've had and seen substantially more discussions closed off by people who fall into the woke camp than the extreme right. The left is eating itself alive at the moment and one major reason for this is the rise of people who claim to be tolerant, and claim to be liberal, and claim to be open minded but are actually very narrow minded and keen to stifle debate... ... if only there was a word people could use to refer to that group...

Congratulations on completely missing the point.

See that word 'mostly' in there? There is a minority of people using the term to mean what you think it does, but honestly in doing so they are doing themselves a huge disservice in doing so, because it associates them with people who get upset that the 'woke' people stop them from having all their golliwogs on display.

It's a virtual signalling of how PC and on trend you are this week.

[quote justanotherneighinparadise]This is my my favourite video ever that sums up the futility of arguments on the internet. I never tire of it 🤣

mobile.twitter.com/ozzymanreviews/status/1086224450918334469?lang=en[/quote]
🤣 Now that's what I'm talking about! Thanks for the "fucking link"! Have to save this video for days I need cheering up.

I think that one of the reasons people get frustrated is Trump. Bear with me. When the woke (and I'm talking about relatively priviledged young, white people) get caught in purity spirals and nothing but absolute adherence to the Party Line is acceptable, it means there is no debate. So some working class factory worker complains that the EU workers mean that his bosses pay less money and he gets called a xenophobe/racist and shut down. Some blue hair metaphorically spit-talks at him about how he's priviledged and needs to check his thoughts. Online, shaming him in front of everyone.

Or women concerned about the Cologne attacks.

Or my Church friends concerned that their priest will be legally forced to marry gay people if he doesn't think it's in the Church's laws.

Or parents in schools who are worried because they've heard their 4 yo will be taught about masturbation.

If these people are all told they are homophobes', racists, xenophobes, bigots, they WILL find someone to talk to. And that someone is Trump. Or Boris, or the Brexit Party or Breitbart or MN (this hotbed of violent transphobia). If they are told they are killing babies with their opinions they won't voice those opinions but will still vote with them. All the polls were wrong in the US because of this.

Open debate, even with people you don't agree with. Assuming that the other person has a valid point, even if it's not your point. Assuming that other people aren't all hateful, just scared, concerned, maybe working with faulty data. How can you talk to them about the actual facts if they have walked off after being insulted?

And worst of all, the woke often (not always) aren't the ones delivering food to the elderly or keeping the Church play group open. Or volunteering at the shelters over Christmas. Nope, that's the bigots. All those dreadful Trump voters in Texas who are evil scum. Lovely people in person. Not the red-hatted twats. The silent ones who just vote. So something has gone badly wrong.

Disclaimer: I have never voted right of centre and am in favour of the EU, immigration and equal marriage. I just don't think all the people with concerns are evil Nazis.

This thread mostly highlights why many people consider the term woke as meaningless as 'sheeple/snowflakes/libtard' seeing as nobody can actually pin down what it means.

I stand by my comment that it's a term mostly used by people upset that they can't be racist/sexist/homophobic anymore, it's a common defence from people who want to shut the discussion down when they get called on being bigots.

And yes, I do mean bigots

But the wokerati have very rigid definitions of what a bigot or racist is and they've already put you in that box if you date say something they consider even only slightly controversial

Vote Brexit and you're a "fascist gammon"

Be white, you must be inherently racist and if you disagree with that it's because your racist too

Be black and vote for Trump, you're not really black. You're inadequate in someway and don't know what's best for you

Show concern that womens safe spaces are being dismantled, you're a trans phobe bigot and must be cancelled

No further discussion. You have questioned the strict woke orthodoxy and must you must be hounded out. No platformed. Not allowed to speak

In discussion, it's so rigid, puritanical and po faced, but this fear of speaking out can also have extremely serious consequences

In Rotherham, Rochdale and other towns, victims of serious organised crime were left to fend for themselves because the woke authorities were scared of accusations of racism

At the Manchester bombing, a security guard was afraid to alert others of the bomber because he was worried that he would be accused of racism too.

@MrsTerryPratchett I agree, and that's basically what my post was saying, just you worded it better lol

[quote Quaagars]@MrsTerryPratchett I agree, and that's basically what my post was saying, just you worded it better lol[/quote]
Maybe not better, certainly long-windedly!

But the wokerati have very rigid definitions of what a bigot or racist is and they've already put you in that box if you date say something they consider even only slightly controversial
TBF, many of those who use "woke" as an insult also do this and I see many more people who use "woke" as insult than people who actually use it to describe themselves.

@DioneTheDiabolist

But the wokerati have very rigid definitions of what a bigot or racist is and they've already put you in that box if you date say something they consider even only slightly controversial TBF, many of those who use "woke" as an insult also do this and I see many more people who use "woke" as insult than people who actually use it to describe themselves.

Exactly this.

See that word 'mostly' in there? There is a minority of people using the term to mean what you think it does, but honestly in doing so they are doing themselves a huge disservice in doing so, because it associates them with people who get upset that the 'woke' people stop them from having all their golliwogs on display
And yet this thread is full of people who seem to understand exactly what people mean when joking about the woke group who seem to care quite a lot about genuine social issues; they just dislike the increasingly ridiculous attitudes of one group of activists who care more about their image than actually pushing for change.

MrsTerryPratchett
Really, really well put. 👏👏👏

There's only so many times people who fall outside the woke bubble of accepted thought can be told to sit down/shut up/educate themselves/ be called bigots or racists before they end up feeling so disengaged that they silently vote elsewhere and are ripe for certain politicians who can meet them at their anger.

Flaxmeadow You're right. It's with us or against us mentality where one side are apparently the virtuous saviours and the rest are bigots who can't handle their hatred.

I love Obama's interview he did where he talked about liking on social media not being activism. There's loads of people around the country who are concerned with social issues and doing something practical about it. If the community groups in my area are anything to go by, these people are moderate, reasonable, caring people and not a social media savvy, blue haired thought police officer in sight.

I do think it’s a stupid description, to me ‘woke’ means ‘woke up’, the past tense of ‘wake up’. I never even heard it until a year ago. The description used to be ‘PC’ for ‘politically correct’. Why the new term?

Do you not think that putting people in a wokerati box also displays a with us or against us mindset @LolaSmiles?

Do you not think that putting people in a wokerati box also displays a with us or against us mindset
No, because the vast majority of people are perfectly tolerant of different views, manage to understand that different people may advocate different approaches to respond to social issues and that often social issues are complex and require interesting debate.

The woke people many of us find hilarious are funny because they claim to be virtuous, liberal, inclusive, caring etc but what becomes quite apparent is they view other views as being intolerant/bigoted. They're hilariously intolerant of different views and seem to be very quick to shut down debate, try to silence people or cancel speakers.

There's an awful lot of them and us in your post @LolaSmiles and therein lies the irony. You consider them hilariously intolerant of different views and they think the same of the us you refer to.

@Ineverdidmind

So open minded their brain has fallen out

That is brilliant! Is it yours? Can I use it and who do I cite?

@LolaSmiles

Intersectionality, privilege and queer theory are all unique to wokeness. Those are all ideological Not really. Privilege comes up in feminism and I'd not say feminism is a hot bed of wokeness.

It's a shame the idea of privilege isn't routinely upheld by the woke brigade though. Too often it seems like those principles depend entirely on which topic in identity politics is the one trending due it being the one privileged (generally) young adults think will make them look good. It's the political equivalent of claiming your 3 days in an orphanage on your gap yah is a sign of compassion for poverty.

Interestingly, it's rarely women, rarely the genuinely poor, rarely the socially and economically disadvantaged, rarely the elderly, rarely those with life long conditions.

Feminism, unfortunate, has some areas pretty seriously infected with identity politics, I'd even say it was instrumental in bringing it into being. Remember how many women's studies departments became gender studies departments.

They'd be better off to get rid of the talk of privilege altogether.

So open minded their brain has fallen out
@ineverdidmind Brilliant!

@HoneysuckIejasmine

Woke to me is when you go so far to the ideological left, you start to share traits with the ideological right.

Like when moderate Labour voters get called Nazis by Momentum types. Or you are told you are literally killing people with your opinions.

Oh god yes, the old literal violence

It means giving a shit about something other than yourself.

Does it, bollocks!

Do you have your own opinion or are you just going to sit there going bollocks at people lol

@WooohVerOfPaper
@felineflutter

I wish I could claim credit for it but I pinched that from the late Magdalen Berns, a wonderful young women sadly taken too soon by a brain tumour. If you search for her on You Tube there are quite a few videos of hers still on there I believe.