Election Part 2 (Trump thread #108)

[Roussette]

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4065847-Were-on-the-home-run-lets-stand-together-for-a-blue-wave-Trump-thread-107?watched=1&msgid=101445731#101445731

Janey Godley has got more critical since 2016, if anything

I know trump will have southern states, but it seems all Biden need is Nevada now that he has WI and MI

Wow. You guys have nearly filled a thread in a little over 24 hours! Kudos.

@Blueberries0112

I know trump will have southern states, but it seems all Biden need is Nevada now that he has WI and MI

Yes IF he has definitely won Arizona. But even though that had been called by Fox News and others, it's still got to complete the count and is now apparently very, very close indeed. So I'm a bit nervous about that unravelling. It is 2020 after all.

@lifesabitchandthenyoudie I will load up a special blend of pig and septic tank slurry. Stinks to high heaven but great for the soil.

@PullTheBricksDown - It is 2020 after all.

Exactly, I'm still very frit about the result. Unfortunately, as I may have already mentioned, I'm very aware that when America sneezes, the rest of the world catches SARS-CoV-2. This election really is not only America's business.

Has Fox News really called Arizona? That will have Trump throwing a major hissy fit surely?

Apparently the lead in Arizona narrowed when they counted batches of drop off mail ballots which are more Republican. The remaining ballots to be counted are posted ballots which are a higher percentage blue. So the democrats are quietly confident they will hold on to Arizona. Still it’s all too close for my liking.

Have been reading r/conservative over the past couple of days to understand the pro-Trump mindset a bit more (as it blows my mind). I did get some interesting insights:

1. A lot of Trump voters like him in spite of his personality, not because of it. They overlook his boorishness and ignorance because they like what he stands for, which is NOT socialism and NOT urban wokeness

1. A not inconsiderable number of them have no idea what the world outside the USA (and sometimes, even their own district) looks like. Remember the "death panels" the NHS was accused of running during Obama's attempt at healthcare reform? They believe all that. The think Europe is so regulated by their governments that Europeans aren't "free." (They don't distinguish between the UK and Europe, btw - tough for those who think the US is a special friend. But also an insight into the welcome for Farage - he's not a "fellow traveller," he's a repentant European who's come over to tell them how he's seen the light about how much better they are than his homeland.)

1. Because they genuinely believe that the USA is the best place in the world with the best of everything, any suggestion than any reform of anything (unless it's about fewer taxes) is revoltingly unpatriotic.

Basically, everything that even slightly liberal voters need to hear to trust a potential leader puts Republican ones right off and vice versa. Which does make me wonder if being willing to accept centrist candidates as the lesser of the possible evils is the way forward for the Dems, at least until this supposed "demographic millennial wave" happens. (Though given that Trump has increased his share of Latino and black male voters, I'm not sure how safe the expectation that young/non-white = Democrat assumption actually is.)

AZ should not have been called.

Do not count it as a cert.

Biden: PA alone or two of NV, AZ, NC and GA.
Trump: All of them.

PA is looking better than it was, AZ is a bit nervey, GA is on a knife edge, NC is red, NV still a bit early to say (but more blue areas than red to count and Biden performing better than Clinton everywhere so far).

I think Biden's call on this was a touch premature tbh, but he was also trying to calm tensions as night fell.

I'm certainly not as confident as his camp even though DH's numbers have so far been tracking well with the trends.

On the Fox News website Arizona is blue with Biden at 50.5% and Trump at 48.1%.

The Democrats need to be slightly more socially conservative going forward and to demonstrate that their version of 'socialism' (which isn't anywhere what we would recognise as the left but to the right of May's Government) isn't as big and as scary as they think. And they need to address policing issues better.

America is not as socially liberal as Europe - apart from in the most metropolitan areas, where frankly they are guilty of their own political blindness and different prejudices. And overall the numbers tilt to the socially conservative side. If the democrats dont recognise this they are in trouble in the long term. They still haven't figured this out over the last 4 years though.

The trouble is the left of the party is too big for its boots and needs to wind its neck in. A Biden victory may embolden then rather than remembering how tight it is.

Liberal democracy has to have broad appeal and consensus to function and in this sense parts of the Democrat camp need to take a long hard look at the messages they are actually sending out rather than the ones they think they are.

"There are 40 million Americans in California. California has 2 United States Senators. There are 550,000 Americans in Wyoming. Wyoming has 2 United States Senators. Something isn’t adding up. "

Sometimes land get to vote too.

No, it's how our founders set it up so people rural, running a farm (or should I say plantation with slaves) can have a voice in the election too

Title suggestion for thread 109
"Are we there yet?"

That's interesting @Singasonga . A lot of Americans I have met who have come to European countries are always surprised at how engaged the people are with the politics of their countries, what should be done to improve things and are not afraid to give critique.

Yes agree @RedToothBrush and the democrats did call this somewhat right choosing Biden who is Catholic.

Catholicism in the US is much more fundamentalist than Europe:

www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/10/catholics-joe-biden-pope-francis-devil/616732/

@Singasonga

Have been reading r/conservative over the past couple of days to understand the pro-Trump mindset a bit more (as it blows my mind). I did get some interesting insights:

1. A lot of Trump voters like him in spite of his personality, not because of it. They overlook his boorishness and ignorance because they like what he stands for, which is NOT socialism and NOT urban wokeness

1. A not inconsiderable number of them have no idea what the world outside the USA (and sometimes, even their own district) looks like. Remember the "death panels" the NHS was accused of running during Obama's attempt at healthcare reform? They believe all that. The think Europe is so regulated by their governments that Europeans aren't "free." (They don't distinguish between the UK and Europe, btw - tough for those who think the US is a special friend. But also an insight into the welcome for Farage - he's not a "fellow traveller," he's a repentant European who's come over to tell them how he's seen the light about how much better they are than his homeland.)

1. Because they genuinely believe that the USA is the best place in the world with the best of everything, any suggestion than any reform of anything (unless it's about fewer taxes) is revoltingly unpatriotic.

Basically, everything that even slightly liberal voters need to hear to trust a potential leader puts Republican ones right off and vice versa. Which does make me wonder if being willing to accept centrist candidates as the lesser of the possible evils is the way forward for the Dems, at least until this supposed "demographic millennial wave" happens. (Though given that Trump has increased his share of Latino and black male voters, I'm not sure how safe the expectation that young/non-white = Democrat assumption actually is.)

Yes, I used to be one of them and my entire family are conservatives and live in the rural areas (so did I)

"Remember the "death panels" the NHS was accused of running during Obama's attempt at healthcare reform" yes I remember that, funny though, they don't see coronavirus as death Panama

Oh, yes!

"Democrats need to be slightly more socially conservative going forward and to demonstrate that their version of 'socialism'"

Been there, done that. Ever heard of blue dog Democrats. There are other type of parties similar to it

The 2 party system in the US doesn’t work. Each party could easily be split 3 ways such is the range of views. It’s all too easy to paint Republicans as gun-totting, anti-abortion rednecks and Democrats as ultra woke communists but I’d bet the overwhelming majority of Americans (and most other nations for that matter) are pretty centrist.

Now if only the parties could acknowledge that then they could pick sensible candidates, rather than those who shout the loudest!

They need to improve their education and let the fear and ignorance of the Cold War generations die out rather than flames by politicians.

This is the note that George H W Bush left for Bill Clinton in January 1993.

Hate to think what Trump will leave behind.

A lot of Trump voters like him in spite of his personality, not because of it. They overlook his boorishness and ignorance because they like what he stands for, which is NOT socialism and NOT urban wokeness

Sam Harris had a short podcast on this yesterday. He made the argument that Trump supporters know how he is a terrible human being, but he serves as a model of anti-self-help.

Democrats / Liberals tell us we need to be more tolerant, kinder, more educated, think more deeply, eat more healthily and become better people.

Trump tells us the opposite - it's ok to hate people, to be ignorant, to be lazy. For a lot of people, it's reassuring and people don't have to be ashamed of all their various weaknesses.

I don't know, I don't get it at all how someone so obviously awful gets 1% of the vote.

[quote Roussette]This is footage from an official poll watcher in PA telling what it was like with the Republican poll watchers querying every single democrat vote.

No wonder counting is taking so long

twitter.com/polarsprite/status/1324265584696074240[/quote]
It's another way of making it slower, thereby casting doubt, isn't it. Arseholes.

I think people respond to trump because he validates the id, the primal selfish evil inner toddler that we all have, the id loves to be validated, it feeds on the attention and soon takes over the personality Trump is pure id

@KiriAndLou

Wow. You guys have nearly filled a thread in a little over 24 hours! Kudos.

Haven't seen such fast-moving threads since Helen stabbed Rob in The Archers