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AIBU?

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Original poster

Dear Haters

263 replies

Buttonitboris · 03/11/2020 21:48

Is it just me or are other Mumsnetters being bombarded with ads, on this site, from the Scottish Government entitled 'Dear Haters' followed by we won't stand for transphobia, race hate crimes etc. I am unreasonable in finding it deeply offensive to be addressed as Dear Hater and do Mumsnet HQ feel it appropriate that users are addressed in this way?

Are these ads appearing elsewhere or is this an attempt by the Scottish Government to shut down debate on this site regarding trans/women's rights?

OP posts:
NekoShiro · 04/11/2020 10:21

@MichelleofzeResistance

I'm talking more about the concept of marketing, not the content of the advert. The whole point of an ad is that you get the most 'engagement' for your money, let's say they bought 100 advert spaces for £100 and 100 people saw it and just scrolled past, it cost £1 per person to force them to see the and nothing comes from it, but if 50 of those people see it, get mad, go onto forums and social media to complain about it and each of those 50 people use word of mouth advertising to 100 people each, then 5,050 people have seen or atleast become aware of the ad now and the cost is 2p per person for marketing.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 04/11/2020 10:21

It came up a couple of weeks ago, on Site Stuff I think. And yes, I was geting them for a while. I browsed Snag tights and some pretty pink boots for a while and it went away Smile

It seems to have selected MN, for all the usual reasons. If, like me, you don't wander round t'internet much, then MN is probably high up on my useage... so I am A Hater.... cos that's what the Scottish Government chose to do as a response to some men having had hurty feelz!

I wish I was kidding... but this and other similar campaigns, Dear Bigots for example, come at the price of £300,000 of the Sottish Taxpayers money!

www.gov.scot/publications/foi-19-02031/

TheCrowsHaveEyes · 04/11/2020 10:22

@YetAnotherSpartacus of course not. God forbid any talk of giving rights and protection to women. They're not even pretending they care about the abuse women experience on a daily basis both in RL and online. Quite often the latter comes from men who are very supportive of this thought policing bill Hmm

SchadenfreudePersonified · 04/11/2020 10:22

@MichelleofzeResistance

No one is addressing you (personally) as a hater unless you are one. If the shoe fits and all that

And there. That's it. That's exactly what it's successfully manipulated you into doing.

You're saying right there, as it prompts you to do, "are you in our gang? Because if not, shame on you."

That's exactly what's wrong with it. And that's apart from the stupid language like some embarrassing down wiv the kidz attempt.

Correct it's institutionalising the language and attitude - it will become background and people won't even see the offensiveness of it.

Like misogyny, it becomes the very air we breathe and we don't notice it's there - but it still have an effect.

Propaganda like this is the "back milk" of our lives - we are fed it, consume it without thinking about it, and it shapes our thinking.

SchadenfreudePersonified · 04/11/2020 10:23

Apologies for the umpteen typos and grammatical errors

CuriousaboutSamphire · 04/11/2020 10:24

No... despite having being asked about it, misogyny, sex based hate etc was never intended to be included... as a quick look at the groups the list of people to be protected against hate clearly shows!

There have been a few threads on this in FWR over the last couple of years. The various similar campaigns are about 2 - 3 years old!

SchadenfreudePersonified · 04/11/2020 10:26

@AldiIsla

The SNP is very teenage. They've had a purge, they're now sliding the danger haired worked into place. One of their lot called women who want women's spaces cunts.
Interesting that when it comes to vile insults they admit the biology . . .
TheDizzyRascal · 04/11/2020 10:29

So you don't want to be addressed as a hater, and yet you've titled this thread "Dear Haters....."

Joking aside, I don't think Mumsnet will have control over it will they? The ads are aimed specifically at each individual based on their browsing history (I believe) - choose to ignore and they'll change soon enough xxx

Raceless · 04/11/2020 10:30

@MichelleofzeResistance

No one is addressing you (personally) as a hater unless you are one. If the shoe fits and all that

And there. That's it. That's exactly what it's successfully manipulated you into doing.

You're saying right there, as it prompts you to do, "are you in our gang? Because if not, shame on you."

That's exactly what's wrong with it. And that's apart from the stupid language like some embarrassing down wiv the kidz attempt.

Don't know about that but OK.

What I'm saying, like someone else mentioned is "Dear Dads" - I'm not a dad, scroll along.
"Dear Snowflakes" - I'm not a snowflake, scroll along.
Dear Haters - I'm not one.

I wouldn't start thinking "why do I keep getting this dear dad ads on my page, why am I being addressed as a dad". A bit naive, isn't it?

It's a general ad based on algorithm. It's not addressed to Claire but Claire might see it. Claire may also take a peek out of curiosity.

Bob may also see it and as Bob is a dad, Bob may take a look or not.

Not the same as a letter to your house. If it was sent to your email, then you can argue It's targeted you.

Still agree the word 'hater' is silly.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 04/11/2020 10:31

So you don't want to be addressed as a hater, and yet you've titled this thread "Dear Haters....."

I thought it was going to be about cats.

IwishNothingButTheBestForYou2 · 04/11/2020 10:32

@SchadenfreudePersonified

Apologies for the umpteen typos and grammatical errors

I'm didn't noitice anything's out of ordinarily.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 04/11/2020 10:32

Interesting that when it comes to vile insults they admit the biology

It's only common sense if you think about it. They have to drop back into reality to have a quick check who it is they are actually hating. Then, reassured that their idea of woman hasn't been too badly erode, they leap back into the Land of Unicorns and Rainbows and carry on deriding the Cervix Havers and Haters.

senua · 04/11/2020 10:33

[quote NekoShiro]@MichelleofzeResistance

I'm talking more about the concept of marketing, not the content of the advert. The whole point of an ad is that you get the most 'engagement' for your money, let's say they bought 100 advert spaces for £100 and 100 people saw it and just scrolled past, it cost £1 per person to force them to see the and nothing comes from it, but if 50 of those people see it, get mad, go onto forums and social media to complain about it and each of those 50 people use word of mouth advertising to 100 people each, then 5,050 people have seen or atleast become aware of the ad now and the cost is 2p per person for marketing.[/quote]
Nonsense. The concept of marketing is to have at least 100 people buying into your concept/product. Not to have 5,050 people think that you are a numpty (I'm being very kind with my descriptor there).

Quaagars · 04/11/2020 10:34

I think it's overegging it to take this so personally. No one is addressing you (personally) as a hater unless you are one. If the shoe fits and all that. If you're not, scroll along

Exactly - I mean I did do a bit of an eye roll at the use of the word hater but that's it - if you're feeling a bit "got at" or that they're personally attacking you, maybe try asking yourself why.

FTFOTFVille · 04/11/2020 10:35

@SchadenfreudePersonified

I'm not transphobic - but I am strongly opposed to self-ID and "TW are women" because it is too easy for abusive and predatory men to take advantage of this. I believe that women and children, and their spaces, need to be protected, and that statistics for crimes etc need to be reported by biological sex, not by gender identity - and have been vocal about this.

I don't get this type of ad. But if you do, I agree that it is inappropriate. "Dear Haters" is a disgusting way to address someone.

I agree that being opposed to self ID and "TW are women" does not make you transphobic, but I am pretty sure the Scottish gov't does not agree and sadly you are one of the haters they are addressing.

Polarising society and putting people in the uncomfortable position of losing their rights or being labelled "hater". Nice one.

iwantmyownicecreamvan · 04/11/2020 10:35

I hadn't seen these so I looked on line and found this.

I would imagine that everyone would agree that people who "push transgender people around in clubs" or who "harass people in the street" or "humiliate, intimidate and threaten them on line" are transphobic. However, the real interpretation of transphobic seems to be anyone who disagrees with their mantras in any way.

Also, I have see more humiliation, intimidation and threats on line from trans allies towards women rather than the other way round - but I suppose that's ok as women aren't a protected characteristic so it's open season.

Dear Haters
Greektome · 04/11/2020 10:35

Yes, I had this ad while on Mumsnet yesterday. I assume it's because I've been following the transactivist / GC debate. The ad encourages people to report "hate crime" and says it's a priority.
If they're doing this before their deeply scary new hate crime legislation is put in place, it's going to be seriously nasty afterwards.
The ad said "Transphobes are not welcome in Scotland".
Once the new legislation is in place, if you tell your children, in your own home, that you don't believe that it's possible for a man to become a woman, they'll be able to report you to the police for hate crime. With a maximum penalty of 7 years in prison.
Very very similar to Big Brother in Orwell's 1984.

Cocothefirst · 04/11/2020 10:35

Transphobia means absolutely ANYTHING the gender idealogues want it to mean. Lumping this vague and bloated term in with other forms of bigotry is a very clever trick on their part.

Absolutely. Stating biological fact - or even acknowledging it - is 'transphobic' in some quarters. And no government should be referring to their citizens as 'haters' - it's utterly juvenile.

GCAcademic · 04/11/2020 10:37

When is the Left ever going to learn? Screaming at people that they are bigots, haters, racists, Karens, etc. is what has delivered us Brexit, Trump, the Tories last December and probably Trump again. Casting your prospective voters or the public you serve as your enemies is not exactly a winning strategy.

Quaagars · 04/11/2020 10:38

Stating biological fact - or even acknowledging it - is 'transphobic' in some quarters

So because some extremists say something, that automatically makes it true?
It reads as "can't say owt nowadays" - one of those from the 70s that just wants to be able to left alone to carry on harassing.

Noideawottodo · 04/11/2020 10:39

I don't believe transwomen are women and I think JK Rowling was right. I expect that makes me a hater in the eyes of the Scottish government. I couldn't give a shit as luckily I don't live in Scotland.

TheKeatingFive · 04/11/2020 10:39

When is the Left ever going to learn?

I don’t think they even want to learn at this stage. They show no signs of it.

Raceless · 04/11/2020 10:40

@TheCrowsHaveEyes

if they are getting stuff popping up on their phones that looks like the government calling them names in a personal way (and it is personal form of address) then they're going to feel suspicious and got at Stop being silly. If people think the government is sending them personal messages via their computer and phones then they need to see their doctor. That is not a healthy response to an advert. There are lots of valid criticisms of the campaign and the proposed law. The Kevin McKenna article linked above is a good example. But pretending OP genuinely thought they were being personally targeted is disingenuous nonsense. It's as insulting as the advert and the proposed bill.
I agree and some of these posters would be the first accusing others of being "professionally offended" when they've taken offence to something that actually affects them or when they've actually been targeted.

But here we are encouraging/enabling actual paranoiaHmm

Quaagars · 04/11/2020 10:40

Once the new legislation is in place, if you tell your children, in your own home, that you don't believe that it's possible for a man to become a woman, they'll be able to report you to the police for hate crime. With a maximum penalty of 7 years in prison

Curious now - how are you envisaging that to be "policed?"
Are you thinking everybody's listening in to your conversations through your walls or something ready to pounce if you say something?

Noideawottodo · 04/11/2020 10:42

@Quaagars

Once the new legislation is in place, if you tell your children, in your own home, that you don't believe that it's possible for a man to become a woman, they'll be able to report you to the police for hate crime. With a maximum penalty of 7 years in prison

Curious now - how are you envisaging that to be "policed?"
Are you thinking everybody's listening in to your conversations through your walls or something ready to pounce if you say something?

No. But your teens or troublemaker ex/friend/sibling/abusive parent could report you with impunity.