To think we need to find ways to improve people’s resilience

[thewitchesofprestwick]

Already so many people are struggling with their mental health. Things are going to get worse for the economy and the physical health of the population, whether we lockdown or not. Jeremy Farrar of the Wellcome Trust indicated that we are out of good options. Then in the background we have the effects of climate change. How do we equip people to cope better day to day? AIBU to think that there is something we can all do?

Also preventing people from having a whinge,moan,rant etc when needed does not build resilience. It builds shame,resentment,self loathing and makes people feel like they don't matter,their feelings don't matter and they have to hide. They're not worthy of your time. They have to fake it and smile through it all.

This moaning is not in isolation, though. Perhaps the audience can only take so much of it. Especially if there is nothing that can be done apart from enduring a particular situation. If I've already given sympathy and talked something through, and all avenues explored, I don't need to need to hear anymore for my own self preservation, quite frankly. There comes a time when everyone needs to move on. If that happens with my own nearest and dearest I would (and do) tactfully suggest a change of scene, a distraction. This works. I've survived quite a bit in my time, so have my family, there has been a few difficult situations and you might as well find enjoyment where you can otherwise there is just misery left,

You can teach coping skills but you can’t teach that “Screw you life you won’t break me, I’m going to be happy anyway“ spirit.

I largely agree with this, and I think part of the issue is that while we can intentionally teach and help kids practice healthy coping mechanisms, there are many unhealthy coping mechanisms in communities that can make a mask of resilience, but reduce coping capacity and the ability to cope well.

Drug use came straight to my mind - many of the 'resilient' older generations used drugs to cope. From alcohol and tobacco to 'mother's little helpers', it's nothing new. We can teach harm reduction, but when surrounded by a community and environment that prioritizes these often easier ways of dealing with emotions in the short term even when damaging in the long term, it's no surprised individuals go to familiar if less healthy coping mechanisms. This is obviously also true with food, digital distraction/overstimulation, and many other ways that people mask pain and difficulties.

I still think it's important to teach and help people practice these skills, but we also have to look at things beyond the individual into community mindsets and environmental pressures. Resilience has come to be a way of shaming people for not masking suffering and I think part of that is an environmental pressure that suffering is an individualistic fault rather than part of life that we can try out best to ease for ourselves and others and learn to live with, but can't eradicate in the complete way that some parts of society would like to appear properly 'resilient'.

Perhaps the audience can only take so much of it.

Maybe the audience should be more resilient?

Resilience has come to be a way of shaming people for not masking suffering and I think part of that is an environmental pressure that suffering is an individualistic fault rather than part of life that we can try out best to ease for ourselves and others and learn to live with, but can't eradicate in the complete way that some parts of society would like to appear properly 'resilient'.

I think part of the problem is that when you undergo situations that are hard the common expectation is you will not be able to cope. So then you get all the singling out and shame associated with not coping even when you can. You are expected to become a victim. The 'support' people offer is too very often not of the useful practical variety more of the head tilting emotional vampire which thrives on other people's grief. You ending up having more hoops to jump through just to show you can actually cope. I tend not to share very much for this reason and would rather give myself a shake than endure that!

Maybe the audience should be more resilient?

They are. They just employ certain coping mechanisms...

Such as not listening!

People still using the term ‘snowflakes’ without irony? Hilarious

The many inequalities in society combined with lots of racism, sexism, homaphobia, poor housing, lack of social mobility, low level trauma, climate crisis and general negative effects of capitalism mean people aren't particularly resilient. We can do something about it but we need to change our whole economic, political and social system.

I don't know if its intended but your post sounds quite blameful if people themselves.

That’s the usual way we think about resilience though isn’t it, that it’s a problem at the individual level. Of course we all want to do what we can to help ourselves but I agree we often overlook the massive societal problems.

Also depends on the definition of resilience that we’re using. I tend to think of it as fighting spirit, others think it means ability to get through whether with a fighting spirit or not, and then there’s the resilience of a community that might be facing inequality.

A way to define resilience at the group level might be the ability to withstand shock such as a recession (or pandemic )

I think the link between mental health and resiliance is interesting. Depression is an illness and can affect anyone - however the first time someone gets really bad depression is often the worst because you don't know if it will ever get better, it feels like it will carry on for ever. If you recover and go on to have another depressive episode later it can be easier to cope with because you know its possible for things to get better even if it doesnt feel like it at the time. I think this is a form of learned resilience, and I think its applicable to other situations as well. If you have been through a difficult time once (unemployment, ill health, violence) and come out the other side (that bits important) then it can be easier to hold on to hope if you go through a difficult time again. Its not the negative experience itself that builds resilience - its the experience of overcoming, recovering or learning to live with it that builds the resilience.

Maybe a proper definition of resilience might help, for a start?

What resilience is NOT:

• stiff upper lip (that Victorian repressed shit is TOXIC and needs to die in a fire)
• never feeling down and defeated, ever (that's stupidity or apathy, not resilience. Just like courage is not the absence of fear, it's feeling fear and carrying on regardless)

Resilient people cry. Resilient people moan. Resilient people get shit scared. Then resilient people pick themselves up and carry on. Still moaning and still crying if that's what they're into. But somehow they're unstoppable.
They suffer like everyone else. They have bad days (or weeks) like everyone else.
But when they hit rock bottom... they somehow bounce back up. Again. And again.

I'm not sure where it comes from. But I know some things do help: stoicism (knowing what you can control, and what you can't), compassion (towards yourself and others), and... (as far as I'm concerned) a fucking epic soundtrack (seriously... music is a great mood booster).
Perhaps more generally: knowing what lifts your mood up, and making full use of it when needed.

I think part of the problem with the pandemic is that, for a lot of people, their usual mood boosters are currently unavailable (meeting with lots of friends, going clubbing, collective worship, etc.), and/or they rely on self-destructive strategies (e.g. booze)
People can learn new coping strategies, but if they're facing a crisis, they need a handhold first.

Yeah a lot of bollocksy posts on here.

People need to go through shit to be resilient!

Posters:
I've been through shit and actually it means I have no resilience.
Answer... Silence

People need to go through shit to be resilient!
Posters: I've been through this specific awful shit and yes I'm resilient. But, who would put anyone through that on purpose? To get the resilience?
Answer: Silence

Suggestion. It comes from having an internal sense of self worth which comes from being secure and loved as a child.
Solution is... ??? To make sure all children feel secure and are loved? How do you do that?

And the idea to separate mental health from resilience... Erm. The people who are struggling are struggling with mental health! Feeling down, despondent, what's the point, etc. Is to do with mental health. There's not a neat line there.

I like the poster who said they had been on a resilience course at work and that is just the thing Fascinated. Who was the provider if you don't mind me asking. It sounds, well, pretty impressive!!!

Final points. People are different.

Some people will leap into a dangerous situation to help someone. Jump onto the track, walk in front of a bus to stop it, get in the middle of a fight. AOK. But say that the thing they need to do is essentially withdraw from society... Not so good. Not so good at all.

Some people need human contact. Is that so weird? This distancing, that is something that some people can't deal with. Ask them to do anything, resilient. Tell them there's no office to go to, no pub to meet people in, nowhere that dancing and laughing with a bunch of people can occur and... What then?

I'm surprised at how many people are really ok with all this. I think on MN more than real life. But still. The people who thrive on other people, getting out there. Are not lacking resilience. The thing that gave them resilience is gone. Getting out into the world and doing stuff, meeting people, dancing like a twat at the shit local disco with a bunch of cheerful strangers...

The not having that release is new and different.

OP I know it's a long thread but I would hope you would read all the posts?

The piece you highlighted from another poster with these words:

'You repair your tools. You enjoy each other’s company. You sing old songs and write new ones.'

I pointed out that we cannot do this. And for many that is a massive part of the problem.

A few people said they felt the same.

I know it's a long thread, I get that. But some posters are baring their souls on here. Why repeat that quote as wow it's fab when a few people had said, but. We can't enjoy each others company. We can't get together and sing. Those mechanisms to uplift in difficult times are not allowed.

I don't really get it. Sorry op.

Kaiserin interesting chime with what I wrote!

'that, for a lot of people, their usual mood boosters are currently unavailable (meeting with lots of friends, going clubbing, collective worship, etc.), and/or they rely on self-destructive strategies (e.g. booze)'

These are basics though aren't they? Being with people. Children playing in groups, teens hitting the park with cider, twenties going to a bar then rolling round to whoever has their own place, going to see bands, plays. Going to places where people are friendly and having a laugh- our local. Is full of late middle aged/ elderly single men. Kids grown up, they're divorced. Live alone. Pub for a couple hours every day, see their mates, have a drink and a laugh. Some of these men are the age to have still seen rationing. The resilient people, right? Not so resilient when they have to sit on their own with that withdrawn- the thing they look forward to. For them, the pub is the thing.

I saw an acquaintance earlier in the pub. I joked on the way out 'I assume you all live together!'. 3 men in their 80s. Who would say they were weak for having a drink together, or awful people. Not me, that's for sure.

Possibly they're snowflakes? According to some... I'll let them know

@thewitchesofprestwick

Already so many people are struggling with their mental health. Things are going to get worse for the economy and the physical health of the population, whether we lockdown or not. Jeremy Farrar of the Wellcome Trust indicated that we are out of good options. Then in the background we have the effects of climate change. How do we equip people to cope better day to day? AIBU to think that there is something we can all do?

Yeah open the gyms.

Going the gym is one thing that keeps me relatively sane. We’re all very careful about hygiene.

It’s all very well saying ‘except for people with genuine mental health issues’ but the fact remains that there are quite a few posters on here who think having a mental illness makes you a weakling. No matter how severe.

@ravensoaponarope

I would say that many of us with ongoing mental health struggles are actually far more resilient than those who have never suffered inner torment. Because we have kept going, often through decades of mental suffering.

Yep. I’m not dead yet. That’s something.

I think you can develop resilience, both as a society and individually. But I don't think it is best done at breaking point. Resilience is best built when failure isn't likely to break you. Build resilience in the population as a whole, but provide support when MH problems are life altering.

many of the 'resilient' older generations used drugs to cope. From alcohol and tobacco to 'mother's little helpers', it's nothing new.

People who use any form of drugs to cope are certainly not resilient - I think you need to learn a bit more about what resilience actually is.

Good luck anyone who thinks they can teach resilience. Resilience arises through having to cope with difficult circumstances. No parent wants to put their children in difficult circumstances. I had an alcoholic father who committed suicide and a depressed mother. It taught me resilience but at a massive cost. I've made sure my child does not have that start in life. That's no failing and if lack of resilience is a product of that so be it!

I think I am pretty resilient. When life has thrown me some really bad curved balls I have learned to adapt and plot a new course in life but this has totally thrown me as I can’t plan anything.
Dp can’t work apart from the odd day here and there, dc and I have lost all our jobs with little hope of finding work for a long time.
Any plans I had have gone out the window and over the last 4years we have worked our way through savings and even pension firstly through Dps cancer diagnosis and then through Covid. (NHS have been useless in dps Cancer treatment. We ended up having to pay for it.)

I can’t be resilient anymore. I can’t put a brave face on when I know I am going to lose everything and at my age am not going to get it back.

I was trying to make the best of things and I felt we stood a chance of getting through things but like a lot of people this 2nd lockdown has meant that any lifeline has been removed.
Didn’t qualify for any government help in the first lockdown so don’t think any will be coming in this one.

Plus we now know lockdowns don’t work. They just delay the inevitable and drag this disease out.
So it is all for nothing.

When people say the economy will be affected. That means peoples lives are affected. The economy isn’t some separate problem and everyone goes on as before

Those who've never experienced hardships and are cushioned are probably not that resilient, they've never had to be.

I don't entirely agree with that.

There's a huge body of evidence showing the serious long-term affects (both on mental and physical health) of trauma.

Trauma survivors tend to cope far less well when confronted with a new traumatic situation, than people who have been "cushioned."

I have overcome serious childhood abuse, teenage sex trafficking, youth homelessness, and watching my mother murdered. By any definition I should be the most resilient person alive. Everyone constantly raves about how incredible and resilient I am. Yet my mental health is totally shot, I live with multiple chronic health conditions which I believe are clearly linked to trauma, and I've struggled to cope with this pandemic far more than anyone I know despite being in far more comfortable circumstances in a financial and practical sense.

Resilience comes from privilege, not hardship.

I highly recommend people check out the work of Doctor Jessica Taylor, who writes incredible books and blogs and things on the psychology of trauma. There are also some very interesting books out there on the concept of "toxic resilience" and why the myth that overcoming trauma builds resilience can be so destructive.

but you can’t teach that “Screw you life you won’t break me, I’m going to be happy anyway“ spirit.

I think you can - you teach it by raising an infant/young child in an environment where they feel loved, safe, and happy. If a child never experiences those feelings from infancy, it's basically impossible.

' 01:44PhilSwagielka

ravensoaponarope

I would say that many of us with ongoing mental health struggles are actually far more resilient than those who have never suffered inner torment. Because we have kept going, often through decades of mental suffering.

Yep. I’m not dead yet. That’s something.'

Heh yeah. Me too.

Looking at death in the eye every day and saying. Nope. The kids need me. It'll upset people. Keep at it.

I think there are some very varying definitions of resilience here.

Stiff upper lip
Things could be worse
Look on the bright side
Etc etc

Sounds like a song from the war 😃

I think we need a decent definition of resilience so that those who have looked the end in the eye and said. Not today. Can see wtf they are even on about.