Terror attacks

[Clappingforjoy]

So aibu to think that anybody that draws cartoons of the prophet is asking for trouble and to wonder why the hell they do it and risk been attacked in the most barbaric way why oh why risk it.

@Princessposie

Freedom of speech OP.

I second this!

[quote WelcomeToManderley]@BurningMam

Apologies if my post wasn’t clear - that’s not what I meant.

When they posted images mocking Judaism it was considered unacceptable - they had to remove the images and apologise.

When they post images mocking Islam it is considered acceptable - which considering France’s history seems very ‘off’.[/quote]
Except that they didn't have to remove the images and apologise. That didn't happen.

‘When they posted images mocking Judaism it was considered unacceptable - they had to remove the images and apologise.‘

In the vast majority of cases Hebdo did not remove images of Judaism. Muslims are not being treated differently.

In France, it's Jews who are bearing the brunt. Children were shot dead at school. That is deeply offensive

@Stripesnomore

It’s ordinary Catholics who are bearing the brunt of racist attacks, not Muslims.

Muslims are subject to many more racist attacks than Catholics in France.

‘Muslims are subject to many more racist attacks than Catholics in France.‘

Not in relation to this incident.

To clarify, I'm not saying Charlie Hebdo were right to do what they did - I'm saying that they had the right to do it and that right needs to be protected.
I don't agree with Trump, I desperately do not want him to be re-elected. However, if anyone tried to inhibit his supporters' ability to vote for him, I would defend them.
I don't like K-pop, I have no interest in it and don't care for it. If someone tried to stop it being played or produced - I would defend people's right to make and listen to it.
I am not a Muslim, I do not wear a head covering. However, if anyone tried to prevent the wearing of head coverings, I would defend a Muslim woman's right to wear one.
Human rights and supporting human rights means supporting people's rights even when they are irrelevant or offensive to you. If you only support human rights when you support someone's actions, then you don't support human rights at all.

Human rights and supporting human rights means supporting people's rights even when they are irrelevant or offensive to you. If you only support human rights when you support someone's actions, then you don't support human rights at all.

Exactly

@BurningMam

It's the same as how Creationists in the UK can leave if they don't want to be taught evolution - do they get to be angry about being singled out?Many religious people are given the option to leave during sex education classes - do they get to be angry? Can Catholics be angry that condoms are being promoted in schools?
Teaching children about human rights is vital - it is one of the most important things to teach them.

The Muslim students didn’t do the killings. Do you think showing naked drawings of the Prophet Mohammed is on a par with teaching about evolution and sex education?

I support free speech but I don’t think we would have done something this inflammatory in a UK school. There is a place for satire but a school wasn’t the right context for it, especially for members of a disenfranchised community who are often ridiculed for their faith.

@Stripesnomore

‘Muslims are subject to many more racist attacks than Catholics in France.‘

Not in relation to this incident.

@Stripesnomore

It doesn’t matter. Muslims will bear the brunt, as the minority.

I think people need to realize that you can be against both these things.

Firstly, no one should ever get killed even if their views are very offensive, racist etc..

Secondly, people who support Charlie Hebdo and say it is freedom of speech. But freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences. Charlie Hebdo is racist there is no doubt. They have made caricatures in the past of refugees, black people, immigrants etc.. Not to mention that France is a very racist place to be a minority. Racism there is much worse than UK.

Charlie Hebdo has made many caricatures which should all have been taken down. Remember the one of the refugee child that drowned and effectively said 'Good he was dead he would have been a rapist anyway' suggesting that all migrants are rapists. Also why are Charlie Hebdo so obsessed with drawing photos of him? In Islam, photos are prohibited of Prophets I am certain in Islam. In effect they are saying we know your religion more than you and can portray in any way we see fit as they have done in the past with immigrants, black people, migrants etc..

Why cannot people understand that you can be against both. No one deserves to die for their views no matter how racist they are. Also, using freedom of speech to attack minority groups is hardly freedom of speech it is bullying other groups which makes racism much worse in countries like France reinforcing stereotypes like immigrants are evil, migrants are rapists etc.. Racism is rife in France for: Muslims, Jewish people, Black People, non French people etc...

[quote SharonasCorona]@BurningMam

It's the same as how Creationists in the UK can leave if they don't want to be taught evolution - do they get to be angry about being singled out?Many religious people are given the option to leave during sex education classes - do they get to be angry? Can Catholics be angry that condoms are being promoted in schools?
Teaching children about human rights is vital - it is one of the most important things to teach them.

The Muslim students didn’t do the killings. Do you think showing naked drawings of the Prophet Mohammed is on a par with teaching about evolution and sex education?

I support free speech but I don’t think we would have done something this inflammatory in a UK school. There is a place for satire but a school wasn’t the right context for it, especially for members of a disenfranchised community who are often ridiculed for their faith.[/quote]
Urm, the Muslim students have been arrested and were involved in the killings.
And yes, it is the same. It's exactly the same. It offends their religion.
It wasn't shown in school for satire - it was shown as part of a discussion on human rights.
It's terrifying how uninformed your comment is.

If anything, what's happened in France makes me want to get that cartoon printed on a t-shirt.

Also, most people who are killed in terrorist attacks don't do anything to provoke anyone. The teacher from a few weeks ago was just showing and talking about the Danish cartoon from years ago in the topic of freedom of speech. The people at the church didn't do anything other than being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

@RUNFAST11
Freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences
This is absolutely correct BUT those consequences must not violate your human rights - that's how it works. So, if someone's speech offends you then you can speak to them, dislike them, protest against them etc - you cannot kill them, beat them, burn them etc. You especially cannot attack OTHER people in the same demographic as them!
Charlie Hebdo are not "obsessed" with drawing pictures of Mohamed. That's not true. Have you subscribed to it? Do you have any idea how many issues there have been? How many have contained images of Mohamed?! How many with content offensive to other groups (including Jews, Christians, Atheists, Hindus etc)?
I wouldn't personally draw or share pictures of Mohamed because I, personally, feel no compulsion to do and would alter my behaviour to prevent the offence of others. However, I would defend (potentially to the death) the rights of others to do so. It is a basic human right - end of discussion. If you, or anyone else disagrees, take it up with the UN.

‘It doesn’t matter. Muslims will bear the brunt, as the minority.‘

It absolutely does matter that someone walked into a church and murdered three Catholics for racist reasons. There is something really wrong with any attempt to dismiss that as not mattering.

You don’t know that in the future Muslims will bear the brunt by something worse happening to them and nothing worse happening to Catholics in France. It’s pure speculation.

@SharonasCorona do you know how many Jewish people have left France because of the increase in anti semitism?

Intolerance works both ways. And plenty of it is present on this thread. Extremism and violence are unacceptable but intolerance and racism are part of the problem. Anyone who denies that has their head in the sand.

What intolerance is there @missyB1?

@BurningMam

Urm, the Muslim students have been arrested and were involved in the killings.

The murderer was Abdullakh Anzorov, he was not a student at the school. The students who identified the teacher to Anzorov didn’t kill him or think he would be killed, although they absolutely should not have identified him.

And yes, it is the same. It's exactly the same. It offends their religion.

This doesn’t answer my question. How is showing naked drawings of Prophet Mohammed on a par with evolution and sex education?

It wasn't shown in school for satire - it was shown as part of a discussion on human rights.

What about the students’ right not to see those drawings? The right to practise their religion in peace?

It's terrifying how uninformed your comment is.

It’s terrifying how you will twist the truth to suit your narrative.

‘Intolerance works both ways.‘

That is the point of human rights. It doesn’t matter what someone’s race or religion is, everyone has the same rights.

@Stripesnomore

It absolutely does matter that someone walked into a church and murdered three Catholics for racist reasons. There is something really wrong with any attempt to dismiss that as not mattering.

If you’re going to twist what I say there is no point in engaging with you. Quote where I said that the murders don’t matter?

You don’t know that in the future Muslims will bear the brunt by something worse happening to them and nothing worse happening to Catholics in France. It’s pure speculation.

This is so naive. There is a documented increase in Islamophobic attacks after an attack by a Muslim man.

‘This doesn’t answer my question. How is showing naked drawings of Prophet Mohammed on a par with evolution and sex education?‘

Because all three are considered highly offensive to some religious people. Some forms of contraception involve killing people in the eyes of some Catholics.

[quote howsers]@SharonasCorona do you know how many Jewish people have left France because of the increase in anti semitism? [/quote]
Anti-semitism is a big issue in France, but the poster was saying Catholics will bear the brunt.

No I was replying to your point that Muslims will bear the brunt.