Terror attacks

[Clappingforjoy]

So aibu to think that anybody that draws cartoons of the prophet is asking for trouble and to wonder why the hell they do it and risk been attacked in the most barbaric way why oh why risk it.

YABVFU

Freedom of speech!

YABU.
People are not "asking for trouble" by doing something that it is their human right to do just because other people are offended by it. It is their right! Just as it is a Muslim's right to express their religion, it is another person's right to draw the prophet. The teacher who was killed did not draw the prophet, he showed a cartoon of Mohamed as part of a class on balancing freedoms.

Webuilt your on my wavelength

I’m genuinely shocked at how so many people have such a simplistic view of what has happened, it’s runs so much deeper than an issue regarding free speech/being offended by a caricature

Once again, I’m not condoning any extremist attacks but it really doesn’t take a genius.

The teacher who was murdered had told his class what he was going to show and gave everyone the opportunity to leave the class if they thought they might be upset. One pupil decided to stay and then went home and reported the teacher to her parents, that screams to me as someone looking to be offended on purpose. I hope that pupil is proud of the outcome of their actions.

@WelcomeToManderley explain it to all us simpletons then?

@Originalyellowbelly

The teacher who was murdered had told his class what he was going to show and gave everyone the opportunity to leave the class if they thought they might be upset. One pupil decided to stay and then went home and reported the teacher to her parents, that screams to me as someone looking to be offended on purpose. I hope that pupil is proud of the outcome of their actions.

Given that they were arrested for their involvement in the planning of the attack, I'd assume they are pleased...

@WelcomeToManderley

I’m genuinely shocked at how so many people have such a simplistic view of what has happened, it’s runs so much deeper than an issue regarding free speech/being offended by a caricature

Once again, I’m not condoning any extremist attacks but it really doesn’t take a genius.

It's ironic that you're the one missing the point. Everyone here understands that Muslims are offended by it, they understand the importance of it. What they dispute is that people cease to have freedom of expression at the point it causes legitimate offence. I'm offended by people who make jokes about being a widow - on this forum today, someone referred to themselves as a "Warhammer widow" as their husband is so obsessed with them that they feel widowed. That, to me, is offensive. It's legitimately offensive to people who are widowed. However, harming that person in anyway is out of order, silencing them is out of order, demanding they cease to use that phraseology because it upsets me is out of order. I need to recognise that they have their own determination of acceptable behaviour and I should avoid things that offend me, not demand others not create them.

@BurningMam but this is akin to Germany mocking Jews, France has caused great suffering to Muslims in the past.

but this is akin to Germany mocking Jews, France has caused great suffering to Muslims in the past.

And yet we have no Jewish people running around hacking people to death.

‘France has caused great suffering to Muslims in the past.’

The French Government has caused suffering to the citizens of certain countries. It has never had any kind of nefarious intentions to Muslims as a group.

[quote WelcomeToManderley]@BurningMam but this is akin to Germany mocking Jews, France has caused great suffering to Muslims in the past.[/quote]
Except that no one is "mocking" anyone. A teacher ran a lesson on human rights and the right to free expression in which they debated the right to free expression where it causes offence. In that class, the teacher told the pupils that he would be displaying those images and students were given the opportunity to leave the class if they felt uncomfortable. The teacher was then murdered as a result. Where exactly was the mocking?
Would you have the same stance if in the UK, in a science class, the students were dissecting an animal. They were given the opportunity to step out if they were offended as vegans or vegetarians but one chose to remain - and subsequently murdered the teacher? Would you believe the teacher was in the wrong then?
If your stance is not the same, could you explain the difference?

@iklboogeymum

At the time they were being oppressed, there were Jews killing people and the whole Jewish community were held accountable.

At no point did Jewish people go into a Church in Nazi Germany and attempt to cut an elderly woman’s head off.

France is not carrying out a genocide against Muslims.

You think Jewish people still aren't mocked and vilified? Still not seeing them murdering people for anti Semitic remarks, cartoons and even attacks on them.

@Clappingforjoy

So aibu to think that anybody that draws cartoons of the prophet is asking for trouble and to wonder why the hell they do it and risk been attacked in the most barbaric way why oh why risk it.

Once you agree not to do the cartoons they will produce a list of other demands.

Surrendering is easy and with practise you'll get good at it.

@BurningMam

I don’t think anyone should be murdered, for any reason.

The caricatures are mocking in their very nature - which seems very insensitive given France’s history. When Charlie Hebdo and the New York Times published caricatures mocking Judaism, they were made to take them down and apologise for being anti-Semitic. Obviously there is confusion/resentment from the Muslim community because why should Muslims be treated any differently?

@Stripesnomore

I posted this on another thread:

“Murders carried out by individual Jews had a huge impact on the Jewish community, an example being when a 17-year old Polish Jew killed a German diplomat because he was angry that his parents had been deported back to Poland. Approximately 100 Jews died, 7,500 Jewish businesses were damaged and hundreds of synagogues, homes, schools and graveyards vandalised.

A poster said earlier on in the thread that the ill-feeling towards Muslim immigrants was much more common than perceived as people didn’t often voice their opinions publicly. If Muslims are continually held accountable for the actions of individuals then I can see similar reactions not far off in the future, things will only escalate from here if we continue with this hate. People are rightly angry but they’re angry at the wrong people.“

[quote WelcomeToManderley]@BurningMam

I don’t think anyone should be murdered, for any reason.

The caricatures are mocking in their very nature - which seems very insensitive given France’s history. When Charlie Hebdo and the New York Times published caricatures mocking Judaism, they were made to take them down and apologise for being anti-Semitic. Obviously there is confusion/resentment from the Muslim community because why should Muslims be treated any differently?[/quote]
So, to clarify your point, when Charlie Hebdo posted images mocking Islam it was unacceptable, but when they posted every single other image they've posted (because, as a satirical magazine, everything they publish is mocking, by your interpretation of the word) that's completely fine. And, the reason why it's unacceptable to post mocking images relating to Islam but not relating to anything else is because Muslims don't want to be treated differently?!
You're saying that a magazine who mocks everyone cannot mock a certain group because that group don't want to be treated differently. Do you see how little sense that makes?!

You are changing the subject and making false equivalencies.

This thread is about whether or not the cartoonists are to blame for terror attacks. It is not about blaming all Muslims.

Muslims are not equivalent to Jews during the holocaust.

Charlie Hebdo has produced many more cartoons satirising Judaism and Christianity than it has Islam. Muslims are not being singled out, and you know this perfectly well if you have been on other threads.

This is a tragedy for the murdered people and ordinary Muslim people who will bear the brunt of the fallout in terms of racist attacks.

Whilst I understand why the French will stay firm, I don’t see the wisdom in showing Muslim kids obscene pictures of the Prophet Mohammed in a school setting. The teacher may have told Muslim students they could leave the room but they would have felt uncomfortable at being singled out in that way.

It’s ordinary Catholics who are bearing the brunt of racist attacks, not Muslims.

@BurningMam

Apologies if my post wasn’t clear - that’s not what I meant.

When they posted images mocking Judaism it was considered unacceptable - they had to remove the images and apologise.

When they post images mocking Islam it is considered acceptable - which considering France’s history seems very ‘off’.

@SharonasCorona

This is a tragedy for the murdered people and ordinary Muslim people who will bear the brunt of the fallout in terms of racist attacks.

Whilst I understand why the French will stay firm, I don’t see the wisdom in showing Muslim kids obscene pictures of the Prophet Mohammed in a school setting. The teacher may have told Muslim students they could leave the room but they would have felt uncomfortable at being singled out in that way.

It's the same as how Creationists in the UK can leave if they don't want to be taught evolution - do they get to be angry about being singled out? Many religious people are given the option to leave during sex education classes - do they get to be angry? Can Catholics be angry that condoms are being promoted in schools? Teaching children about human rights is vital - it is one of the most important things to teach them.

Once you agree not to do the cartoons they will produce a list of other demands.

Exactly