Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Terror attacks

312 replies

Clappingforjoy · 31/10/2020 12:24

So aibu to think that anybody that draws cartoons of the prophet is asking for trouble and to wonder why the hell they do it and risk been attacked in the most barbaric way why oh why risk it.

OP posts:
howsers · 31/10/2020 14:08

France is home to Europe's largest Jewish population & record numbers of them are fleeing to Israel because of increased anti semitism & because they are scared of being killed simply for being Jewish.

Enough4me · 31/10/2020 14:08

OP If you say that the cartoonists created this by upsetting someone then what else needs to stop, all drawings, all art, all words as they may offend?

What control takes the place of art and words?
Is that a world that you are seeking?

howsers · 31/10/2020 14:08

@Stripesnomore whoosh it just goes over people's heads.

PostItJoyWeek · 31/10/2020 14:11

Clapping in some countries any criticism of the government will get you arrested and tortured. Would you tell the citizens to keep quiet?

bluebluezoo · 31/10/2020 14:12

I'm sorry but if I was a man with kids family etc I wouldnt do things to put myself in danger I would be looking over my shoulder all of the timE

What about women and those without kids or family? Are they allowed to risk it? Or do you think it’s only men that stand up to terrorism?

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do nothing.”

FourTeaFallOut · 31/10/2020 14:13

It's hard to believe you are posting in good faith, op.

lunar1 · 31/10/2020 14:14

Do you think this about other topics? Thank god history is littered with brave people who will stand up for our freedoms.

monstermancs · 31/10/2020 14:16

going to church is a innocent activity but to goad with cartoons isnt

I know you care OP, so perhaps phone The Guardian asap as their cartoonists regularly draw Trump and their lives may be in danger if they allow such offensive cartoons to be printed. How will you live with yourself if innocents are attacked because of these cartoonists offensive drawings of Trump!

Eng123 · 31/10/2020 14:18

OP the point is that in our society you are permitted freedom to comment/speak. These people want to take away that freedom and by being deterred by their violence you encourage it.

blueangel19 · 31/10/2020 14:21

If we are not careful taking our dogs to the park would become offensive

cardswapping · 31/10/2020 14:24

OP, what next?

If you listen to pop music, you are next? [[https://www.ft.com/content/8d0bc7b2-413b-11e7-82b6-896b95f30f58 FT article "ISIS hates music for its Powerades over minds and bodies]

If you go out without a male family member, you are next?

The "don't do x if you don't want trouble" gives all power to people who choose violence to convince you their ways of life should be yours.

PostItJoyWeek · 31/10/2020 14:24

@Eng123

OP the point is that in our society you are permitted freedom to comment/speak. These people want to take away that freedom and by being deterred by their violence you encourage it.
This.
cardswapping · 31/10/2020 14:25

OP, what next?

If you listen to pop music, you are next? FT article "ISIS hates music for its power over minds and bodies

If you go out without a male family member, you are next?

The "don't do x if you don't want trouble" gives all power to people who choose violence to convince you their ways of life should be yours.

BigBadVoodooHat · 31/10/2020 14:29

The OP has to be a troll.

Let’s hope do. But there’s always the worrying possibility that there are actually people out there with such simplistic thought processes. Shock

BigBadVoodooHat · 31/10/2020 14:41

'hope so' ~ damn you, autocorrect Angry

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 31/10/2020 14:41

I get your point OP and it was one of my first reactions too. I absolutely believe in freedom of speech but I’m not sure I support goading or deliberate disrespect.

I agree with this. Nobody here is condoning or excusing terrorist actions in any way, but I fail to see why somebody who isn't a Muslim would take it upon themselves to draw a cartoon representing a person in whom they have no interest, knowing how grossly offensive people would find it. As far as I'm aware, ALL Muslims would find this depiction of their Prophet offensive and upsetting - not just the tiny minority who would react with violence and terrorism.

I enjoy most meat, and happily eat it myself, but I wouldn't dream of walking into a synagogue with a plate of pork chops or a Hindu temple with a 12oz sirloin steak rather than eating it myself at home/in a restaurant/in a neutral public place. Why would I go out of my way to do something for no other reason than to offend people and their deeply-held beliefs? If I went one further and shaped the various meats into a representation of something held sacred by the people before walking into their holy building with it?

They wouldn't in any way be justified, should anybody in there take it upon themselves to violent attacking me if I did, but why ever would I even dream of doing something so aggressive that has no benefit or interest to me personally?

Women wear short skirts and different kinds of clothes for all kind of reasons - none of them in attempt to upset/offend/provoke anybody else, so I don't think it's a fair comparison. I think a more realistic analogy would be designing and wearing a dress with offensive insults about Islam (or any faith) emblazoned across it. Millions and millions of designs and slogans you could have used, so why would you deliberately choose a hugely offensive one?

blueangel19 · 31/10/2020 14:48

Why would I go out of my way to do something for no other reason than to offend people and their deeply-held beliefs? Do you think the beheaded teacher was going out of his way to offend his pupils?

CoffeeandCroissant · 31/10/2020 14:53

@DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult

This is the equivalent of saying women who wear short skirts deserve to be raped.
Agreed. The person 100% in the wrong here is the one carrying out the violent act, not the victim of the attack.
PostItJoyWeek · 31/10/2020 15:14

Cartoons poking fun at a religion in a magazine that is optional to buy are in no way equivalent to walking into a synagogue with a plate of pork chops

Doyoumind · 31/10/2020 15:15

Do you think it was the teacher's fault he got beheaded?

PostItJoyWeek · 31/10/2020 15:23

Why would I go out of my way to do something for no other reason than to offend people and their deeply-held beliefs?

Would it be OK for me to behead Frankie Boyle? Jim Davison? Donald Trump? Borat? They have all deliberately offended people, including me. Graham Linehan and JK Rowling have apparently offended people, not me but others are definitely feeling offended. Repeatedly.

If it is not OK to kill them for saying things they know others will be offended by, why is it one rule for their lives and another rule for Charlie Hebdo cartoonists?

iklboogeymum · 31/10/2020 16:18

I don't think it's a fair comparison. I think a more realistic analogy would be designing and wearing a dress with offensive insults about Islam (or any faith) emblazoned across it.

You mean like this one? I don't see any Christians running round beheading elderly women about it.

Terror attacks
startrek90 · 31/10/2020 16:56

YABU. I am a member of the Lds Church (Mormon) and I don't recall running around beheading people when the book of Mormon musical was in town. I don't think anyone else did either.

Nothing and no one is above criticism and yes, mockery. I include my church leaders in that too. God is powerful enough, he doesn't need me to hurt others on his behalf. He has a strong ego and can take a few jokes/cartoons at his expense. That is faith.

Only those whose faith/religious identity is weak would ever consider such violent actions. Those who are strong in their own beliefs don't need to force others to conform to prop themselves up. These terrorists are faithless cowards, nothing more.

WelcomeToManderley · 31/10/2020 17:19

IMO the issue is more to do with France causing so many atrocities in Muslim countries (which are still evident to this day) and then mocking Muslims because they can, as if they’re on an even keel and nothing ever happened Confused

Obviously terror attacks are never the answer though!

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 31/10/2020 17:19

As I thought I made it plain in my earlier post, I absolutely do not condone or justify in any way the violent actions of the minority of offended people; they are terrible, appalling criminals who deserve the harshest of punishments.

I was just responding to what I understood the OP to be about in general terms - wifully going out of your way to offend people for no reason whatsoever. I don't know the murdered teacher's motivation, and he in no way deserved or invited that reaction, but he must have known how offensive what he was doing would be to a great many people, so that would lead me to wonder why he chose to show the cartoons, when surely just discussing the cartoons' existence would have served the same purpose?

Yes, that nasty t-shirt is exactly the kind of thing I mean. I'm a Christian and I find it disgraceful in the extreme. Like the vast majority of peaceful Muslims offended by representations of their Prophet, I wouldn't dream of trying to hunt down the designers or printers and harming them. Truth be told, I feel sorry for them that they could have come up with any number of funny, maybe edgy or controversial, designs, but they were obviously actively hoping to deeply upset and offend a whole lot of people indiscriminately - anybody who sees somebody wearing it - by attacking a concept that clearly means absolutely nothing to them whatsoever but which they knew would traumatise those to whom it is precious. I wonder how the designer would react if, say, somebody who had managed to get a photo of their mother printed it on a t-shirt with a knife through her heart and bleeding, with a caption saying "Your Mum: Dead " (but uncensored). Would they be applauding the hilarity of it all or might they just stop for a moment and think: that means nothing at all to the stranger who did it, but they obviously set out to hurt me in as extreme a way as they possibly could? I have no issue at all with teasing, controversy, satire.... but what kind of person lives full of so much hatred of strangers?