If you WFH what time should you start work?

[EatPrayYoga]

If official hours are 9-5, is it a problem if you are not logged on by 9 every day?

I'm a team manager and one person on the team consistently logs on after 9 am. I know because our system shows a green or other colour next to everyone's names in an email so if I email the team I can see who is online and who isn't.

I usually send an email in a morning to confirm any things to be aware of for that day including who is not working that day and who is covering their work.

He usually logs on at about 9.05 but I'm not sure whether to mention this as he is only slightly late. He is in a junior role but wants to progress. There are other people in the same role who start work earlier than 9 to get things done so he stands out as doing less though I can't say who does more or less work in a day as their work is delegated by different members of the team.

I also realise we are in difficult times. He lives with parents and has no children or pets but I believe there are other adult siblings do not sure how easy or difficult the WFH circumstances are.

IABU to be unimpressed?

[Idontknowanymore1]

Make a few blanket statements when addressing the team, I.e can I remind you please ensure you are logged on ready to go by 9am, over time welcome etc etc and surely he is up for review at some point perfect time for you to bring up observations.. Happy with work actual work produced but the volume can be improved, set targets like being online at 9am, completing work within deadline, ... most want to progress but not all have what it takes .. but
Again if he doesn’t know he isn’t quite cutting it and reasons why he can’t improve some need a little nudge

[DameFanny]

@Idontknowanymore1

Make a few blanket statements when addressing the team, I.e can I remind you please ensure you are logged on ready to go by 9am, over time welcome etc etc and surely he is up for review at some point perfect time for you to bring up observations.. Happy with work actual work produced but the volume can be improved, set targets like being online at 9am, completing work within deadline, ... most want to progress but not all have what it takes .. but
Again if he doesn’t know he isn’t quite cutting it and reasons why he can’t improve some need a little nudge

Sorry but this isn't good advice. A bad manager will think they can manage one person's poor performance by issuing blanket statements to the team - or even worse, bringing in rules to address that but which end up decreasing flexibility for the good performers.

And this guy's already demonstrated that he doesn't recognise hints, or even direct feedback.

So why would you piss off the entire team by patronising them to reach the single squeaky wheel who won't even notice?

[TotorosFurryBehind]

Is he using Outlook web access? As my dot doesn't go back to green once I've been 'away' and stays on yellow even when I'm in my emails. I understand it's a known technical issue.

But that aside, you sound like a petty manager to be obsessing over Outlook dots.

[NatashaAlianovaRomanova]

My contracted hours are 9-5 the first work related thing I do is switch on my laptop - if I press that button at 9am on the dot I am at work on time but by the time I've gone through the log in process it's about 9:04.

Logging into work systems is considered work & therefore does not have to be done until you officially start work - the job I'm in just now pays me enough that I don't mind logging in (& starting) early but my last job I wouldn't open the laptop before 9am for the pittance they paid.

For those saying it's 25mins a week - that 5 mins to log in means starting 5mins early every day & equates to 25mins unpaid each week - in a minimum wage job that takes the employee under the legal minimum.

[Idontknowanymore1]

Shouldn't effect flexibility for others as it’s not Flexi hours their official Office hours are 9-5, It’s also not introducing a new rule..

If worded correctly i personally wouldn’t be offended or feel Patronised if my team leader sent out a blanket “reminder” because I’d feel confident it wasn’t aimed at me if I knew I was on line at 9am every day.

However I missed the OP saying theres already been hints and direct feedback, so that would change my view. If attempts have already been made and it’s a real issue then a one to one is needed at some point

[Runningjump]

You sound like a nightmare to work with.

So what if he wants to progress? If he doesn't this isn't your problem.

I work flexi but will work many more hours during the week. Sometimes I set my status to 'Away' and work for an hour or two on a morning without being disturbed.

He might leave at 5 but log back on later at night?

[Kseniya]

@woodhill but is it true.... and it really and it really disciplines.
I’m almost always late, but I’m not late for work

[woodhill]

Glad I'm not there.

I'm punctual anyway but people get stuck in traffic etc. Different obviously when wfh

[hil1910]

25 non productive minutes per week seems to be praying heavily on you. That being the case have a gentle word and ask whether there are any issues preventing him from being available at 9am. By simply pointing out that if every team member did as he does then “nn” productive minutes would be lost each week. Years ago when I started work everyone had to physically sign in before 8:30. After which a red line was drawn in the book and latecomers signed below the line. Somewhat draconian but timekeeping quickly became a priority.

[Wheresyourclapham]

You’re relying on coloured dots and doing a lot of drip feeding. Difficult to tell without knowing the role and sector, but it sounds like you’re micromanaging him. Be a Manager and manage him. Have you asked if there are any issues for him whilst WFH. You should be concerned about his wellbeing and that he is taking enough breaks away from the screen throughout his working day.
Flexibility is the key whilst WFH, especially during Covid times. It can take up to 5-10 mins to log on. If you know he was a slacker pre-Covid, manage him.

Many of us have been working our tails off WFH since March, with young primary school aged kids at home when schools were closed for six months, logging on early, logging off late, working through lunch breaks without actually eating and doing school runs. Working throughout the night and weekends in order to meet urgent deadlines. The yellow/amber ‘Away’ status light is sometimes on during and also often outside of my contracted part-time hours. I sometimes log on 10-15 minutes later than my contracted start time, as my children’s school have changed and reduced the timings of the school day due to Covid. Management seems to be fine with that, as I get the job done well, on time and have been offered a permanent contract. There are also capacity/staffing constraints due to cuts.

I left a previous job due to a controlling Manager and their unnecessary micromanaging. Everyone had heavy workloads due to the sector and there were also staffing issues. Manager expected all of their staff to request permission to log on before working outside of their contracted hours!, including other unreasonable requests that distracted staff from getting on with the pressing tasks at hand. I believe that the Manager was trying to justify the existence of their role, as they did not seem to do much else. When they did have other tasks to do, they delegated most of them or required a lot of hand holding in order to execute the tasks themselves.

[EatPrayYoga]

That's a long post for someone who hasn't RTFT (or at least my updates) Clapham have I given details about the sector and role.

I'm only reading the replies that seem relevant now too.

[SimplyRadishing]

Fuck me... this place sometimes.
5 minutes doesnt matter if you are a star performer. It matters if you are an at best middle of the pack coaster who treats a salaried job as a 9-5 then don't even do the 9-5

He doesn't have a bad attitude at all but maybe a lack of ambition, in some ways, and yet talks to me about applying for promotion. I don't think he realises he is not doing enough. I have mentioned things he needs to work on but I don't think he gets it. I think he probably does think he has started work at 9 if he is at his desk at nine but in this kind of competitive environment he is not going to get where he wants to be by being half assed with everything.

I have managed a million of the man you describe. He has a bad attitude.
He is happy to send you sloppy work and happy to let you waste time correcting it.
He is happy to produce an unreliable output.
He is happy to let his teammate carry more of the load.

I'd keep it professional but get more direct and put feedback in writing.

He is either oblivious or will fully ignorant to feedback.
Presumably, Your life would be easier if you have another X instead of him and harder if you had a whole team of him. You shouldnt consider promoting him and tell him directly with current performance he won't be considered for promotion
When the role comes up and he is not promoted, he will get chippy. Do not back down do not give a pay rise to ease it because he doesnt get it. He gets it. He's just entitled..

[Chickenfingers]

Please don't be that manager. Mine once rang me at 9.04 asking where I was when it was my system being slow (one they were well aware of too and I'd been asking for a new laptop for months) Lost my respect from then on.

[AverageM00]

7am or 7pm
12 hour shifts
Sometimes 2pm to 2am to cover slightly different work at certain times of the year

Office closed due to virus

[feistyoneyouare]

@EatPrayYoga

That's a long post for someone who hasn't RTFT (or at least my updates) Clapham have I given details about the sector and role.

I'm only reading the replies that seem relevant now too.

Do you mean you're only reading the ones that are agreeing with you?

[EatPrayYoga]

Do you mean you're only reading the ones that are agreeing with you?

No not at all. If you have RTFT I said very early on that I take on board the comments about 5 minutes not being a big deal and he could be at his desk at nine and just logged on slightly later.

Some of the comments, however, refer it depending on the role and sector, which I have explained. Some say it depends on his performance otherwise. which I have addressed. Some say flexibility works both ways ie starting late if he finishes late but I have said what the issue with this is. I cannot really take into account the comments saying people shouldn't work before 9 or after 5 as that's simply not how it works in our business.

I genuinely wanted people's views but at this stage I have given sufficient detail that the comments that are irrelevant to the particular situation or that ask questions that have been answered will mostly be ignored because they are a waste of time for everyone involved.

[MadameBlobby]

@VinylDetective

My boss would be unimpressed if I swanned off half an hour early every day because my “work was done” or decided to do my work at times that suited me

This is increasingly how people are managed so your boss is a dinosaur.

My boss is not a dinosaur. You have no idea what my job is and why I need to be there at set times.

This individual does not have the basic qualities of self discipline or respect to be an even vaguely competent lawyer.

[sbhydrogen]

It's five minutes, come on. 🙄🙄

[H0liday00Dream]

I have worked with people who have consistently been late
One traveled by train
One had a very long car commute

It is irritating for the people who turn up on time every day

I once turned up 5 mins late for a job. The boss said that they would dock me 15 mins pay for every lateness. I never turned up late again

[DeeCeeCherry]

It seems strange for a manager to be consulting strangers on an internet forum as opposed to having a casual word with employee to ask him to log on by 9am. Makes it seem as if you just want to gossip and attract negative comments about him, which is unprofessional. In which case you're not actually doing your job and managing him, are you?

[DeeCeeCherry]

You also put your post up at 10.16am and have been pretty interactive on it. At various times, too. Much of this is during 'office hours time', surely...?

[Wheresyourclapham]

@EatPrayYoga
Yes, it was a long post. I had a lot to say.

I RTFT, so I must’ve missed that information amongst all of the drip feeding.

Maybe you shouldn’t have posted on AIBU if you are sensitive to the opinions of strangers’ responses to a situation that you have shared with the Whole Wide World.

[Wheresyourclapham]

DeeCeeCherry
‘You also put your post up at 10.16am and have been pretty interactive on it. At various times, too. Much of this is during 'office hours time', surely...?’

^This!

@EatPrayYoga
You replied to my post at 08:24. Unless you were scheduled to start work later than 09:00 or had a day off that day, you seem way too invested in what randoms on the net have to say.

I saw your response on the morning of 2nd, but only responding now as I’ve been busy.

Also, as @feistyoneyouare has said, it looks like you are only happy with the posts that agree with you!

[CheetasOnFajitas]

@DeeCeeCherry @Wheresyourclapham

Try reading OP’s posts.

She was on annual leave the day she posted, and was also catching up on work in her own time.

[LioneIRichTea]

I bet if he logged off at 5:05 you wouldn’t say anything