If you WFH what time should you start work?

[EatPrayYoga]

If official hours are 9-5, is it a problem if you are not logged on by 9 every day?

I'm a team manager and one person on the team consistently logs on after 9 am. I know because our system shows a green or other colour next to everyone's names in an email so if I email the team I can see who is online and who isn't.

I usually send an email in a morning to confirm any things to be aware of for that day including who is not working that day and who is covering their work.

He usually logs on at about 9.05 but I'm not sure whether to mention this as he is only slightly late. He is in a junior role but wants to progress. There are other people in the same role who start work earlier than 9 to get things done so he stands out as doing less though I can't say who does more or less work in a day as their work is delegated by different members of the team.

I also realise we are in difficult times. He lives with parents and has no children or pets but I believe there are other adult siblings do not sure how easy or difficult the WFH circumstances are.

IABU to be unimpressed?

A thread like this really makes me appreciate the job I have, the place I work and my manager. Someday I log on earlier than others, I don't have an official start time but I'm so busy and manic during the day that I more than make up for any time lost at others. I'd be more concerned about productivity that being 5 minutes late to be honest. You can start early, leave late and still not do much!

He is at the beginning of his career, you should be clear with expectations towards him. It might sound petty but you’ll be doing him a favour in the long run. It’s not a massive hardship to be punctual, he should be available as per his employment contract,

If he starts at 9am he should leave enough time to be logged on by 9am or a little earlier.I don’t think that you ABU at all. Regardless of how late he stays, his start time is 9am therefore he should be ready to meet, take phone calls and work by that time. I have three children and still manage to log well before my start time :-) I mean I’m working from home so it’s a lot easier. I would have a chat to him as there may be a reasonable reason.

Ugh I cannot bear companies that are like this and thank my lucky stars every day I do not have to work for one. It's petty AF if someone's performance is good and they're completing what needs to be completed, to be clockwatching someone. If someone is completing what needs to be completed within work hours then where is the problem? In fact, if they're completing what needs to be done within contracted hours then perhaps you should be questioning why others are needing to clock longer hours to achieve the same thing. Work smart not hard and all that.

My job has core hours- and I arrive for work 1 hour before my core hours begin so I can clock off as close to finish time as possible. Due to the amount of extra I work, if anyone ever dares mention to me that I was 1 min late to start or 5 mins early to finish they will absolutely feel the wrath of me. I appreciate this is different to the situation you seem to be putting across of the person you line manage.

If your work hours are 9-5 and your computer takes 5 minutes to turn on and warm up, then you turn it on at 8.50.
Whether he gets all his work done, or stays extra after 5 is irrelevant. His work hours are 9-5 and that means at his desk ready to work for those hours.

I suspect all those telling you how long their computers take to turn on, or that its only 5 minutes and to get a grip etc, are also guilty of playing their bosses when it comes to work time.

Our manager often sends generic emails to the whole team reminding us what our working hours are and that they are monitored by his managers. Maybe you could do the same?

Maybe privately message the worker about their 5 mins late and that it has been noticed. Maybe they don't have the drive at the moment to push themselves further career wise. As long as their work is getting done I wouldn't push too hard. Quite, private and informal chat may be enough to put them back on track. Maybe they're struggling with mental health issues. I know that's a phrase being thrown out there a lot at the moment but people are feeling down without it being intense depression. I've lost my drive for work, especially without seeing peers. Maybe their future feels a bit lost or uncertain?

I am finding all most of these replies very helpful.

It seems an unnecessarily agressive way of doling out work. Can you not just rotate allocation? If he was in my team I’d tell him straight that not being available at 9 goes against him. Approach it curiously. He may give medication to a parent at a certain time or the nurse arrives or anything. At least give him the opportunity to explain or change his time time keeping.

I would say the points you’ve mention count against him if he wants to progress. Presumably there will be some sort of formal meeting about his progression where management can say - you won’t be progressing at this stage because of x,y and z. One of these being showing willingness to go over and above what you ‘have’ to do as others in this competitive industry do. Surely it’s not that hard to log on at 8.55 when wfh?!

But agree with other posters presenteeism is a crap way of assessing someone’s worth to the business.

I moved into the corporate world from a different field in my late twenties, and it was a difficult adjustment.
The field I came from had a very plain-spoken culture where if you were late you would be asked what kept you? instead of a raised eyebrow and a gently enquiring traffic?
It took a while for me to realise that the mild tones did not mean no one was bothered!
I wish someone had directly spelled it out to me at the start, it would have made life much easier.
In your next 1:1 please say directly, with no prevarication or obtuseness, if you want a training contract you are competing with people logging on early, taking extra work and often working 10 hour days and you need to start doing the same.
If he doesn't respond by changing then you at least know you've done your best.

@EatPrayYoga

If official hours are 9-5, is it a problem if you are not logged on by 9 every day?

I'm a team manager and one person on the team consistently logs on after 9 am. I know because our system shows a green or other colour next to everyone's names in an email so if I email the team I can see who is online and who isn't.

I usually send an email in a morning to confirm any things to be aware of for that day including who is not working that day and who is covering their work.

He usually logs on at about 9.05 but I'm not sure whether to mention this as he is only slightly late. He is in a junior role but wants to progress. There are other people in the same role who start work earlier than 9 to get things done so he stands out as doing less though I can't say who does more or less work in a day as their work is delegated by different members of the team.

I also realise we are in difficult times. He lives with parents and has no children or pets but I believe there are other adult siblings do not sure how easy or difficult the WFH circumstances are.

IABU to be unimpressed?

Please don't be one of those managers. Nobody likes nor wants this type of manager.

Is it affecting any work stats or his work load? It's not his concern if other's log on earlier than 9am, more fool them. Do they get paid for this extra time!? It's their choice to do this!

Going by a green light on Skype/Microsoft teams/Outlook is highly unprofessional and too Big Brother.

Do your job, let him do his and don't cause an issue.

I’m a qualified teacher but working as a TA this year to gain the experience to be able to move into a specialist teaching role. Our hours are 830-4. Our agency has said we need to be ready to start work at 830, so if we need to get water, make a coffee, put our lunches in the fridge etc, we need to be inside the school by 825 latest. Not one of us is in the classroom later than 825. It’s part of the job and it has been explicitly communicated as such. We are ready to work at the time we are expected to start, not hanging up coats and putting the kettle on. Your team member should be online and ready to work in the contracted hours, IMO. Even if that means firing up the laptop at 8.50 and making a brew at 8.45.

"19:28GingerWit
Do your job, let him do his and don't cause an issue"

Being a manager does involve pulling people up on their punctuality!
I assume you couldn't be bothered reading the authors other posts where she states his workload is affected??

I've worked in a big company, corporate HQ type environment (not law) for the last 25 years.

In the last 10-15 years, focus on hours worked and presenteeism has decreased markedly, and during that time productivity and quality of work have increased. I suspect this is partly because the grown-up and respectful work environment is conducive to retaining experienced employees (especially women with children).

I work at home and log on when it suits me. I wouldn't expect anything else of the people who report to me. As long as they are there when they are required (meetings) and do the work properly - I literally don't give a shit when they log on/off. If they use their time efficiently and have some personal time, all the better. We work across time zones anyway, so flexibility is far more valuable than having a team of clock watchers.

@EatPrayYoga

Perhaps he has no intention of qualifying at your firm? Of course that's no reason not to pull him up if he is underperforming. I genuinely can't remember the last time I logged on or off "on time" and frequently work into the evenings, on holidays etc. That is the nature of this job. However I'd be lying if I said I didn't get pissed off with it, but you accept it is part and parcel of being a solicitor. I also do have a large amount of flexibility over my own diary, so it's give and take. At the end of the day, if he doesn't want to qualify with you and just sees you as a route to qualification, that's a shame. But please don't try to make people feel they have to be forever grateful for being offered a training contract (which is just a job, like any other). It's one of the many things wrong with our industry.

I must confess to not having read the whole thread. Having worked in training trainee lawyers (in big five), being available on time and beyond working hours is a pre-requisite. Has he noticed how long the partners and even recently appointed associates are available?! Working more than your contracted hours is an expectation. I remember sleeping under my desk waiting for client feedback as a trainee.

Yes exactly Blue Boar it is part of the job

lawandgin I think he does want to qualify at our firm. I don't believe anyone said he should be grateful for a training contract but he might find he doesn't get one given the competition

Sounds like an old fashioned workplace with practises and expectations that really should be stamped out. The world is moving away from this and people will vote with their feet.

Oh my fucking god. If the only thing you've got to worry about is someone being 5 minutes late logging in, you're very lucky.

Are they doing their job? Are they competent? If so, Then leave them alone. They are not a child so don't treat them as such. What's important, 5 minutes or a competent employee

I thought this bullshit presenteeism culture died when WFH became the new normal. Seems as if old habits die hard in some places.

Treacle I have found most of the replies on this thread helpful so I'm now going to help you out:

1 - Asking a question on Mumsnet does not mean the OP has "nothing else to worry about" and actually that's completely irrelevant to the question.

2 - If you RTFT you will find the answer to your questions.

3 - Starting a reply with "oh my fucking god" makes you sound like a teenager who has been asked to start work on time again

I'm sorry I haven't read the full 17 pages of bullshit excuses my blood was pouring out of my ears by the 3rd reply saying that's how long it takes for his pc to log in.

If it takes 45 minutes to log on then you log on 45 mins early and discuss that with your employer.

The disgraceful attitude to getting to work on time while working from home says everything about today's ethics
I used to commute 2 hours just to be at my desk on time, my time my money my petrol.

I didn't get paid from 2 hours before I started work, that was the choice I made when I took on the role.

Take some responsibility for your own lives FFS it's no wonder a bullshit weak virus is what's going to take us down.

Get a work ethic you bunch of snowflake lazy whiners

I have been WFH since 23 March and it can be really tough not having the face to face support from colleagues and management. My managers/ team leaders have not carried out consistent welfare checks on myself and other team members and it has definitely impacted on mine and others mental health. There is plenty of contact via email but this is not enough IMO . OP Why don’t you just speak to this member of staff ? He may be really struggling and need some support

Did your work carry out consistent welfare checks prior to WFH?

I know my last employer wasn't exactly pro work life balance.

There seems to be a lot of moaning about the thing we have been dreaming about.

Maybe actually talk to your manager instead of sitting at home feeling disregarded.

Maybe your manager feels like they are disregarding you but doesn't know how to talk to you about it.

Maybe, just maybe talk to your employer instead of random strangers

He’s talking the talk op. There is no way when he was in the office he didn’t notice x was at their desk when he got in at 9am and was there when he left at 5.01. He also noticed they got promotion and he didn’t. And he doesn’t understand why’ . It’s a competitive field, if he doesn’t understand this by now then quite honestly you’re flogging a dead horse. People who work above and beyond (which does not mean early/late but effectively doing 9-5 job but 10-4 hours) progress.

And before the pitchforks start getting set fire to, I'm a union rep and am totally on the employee side but this is the same old crap I heard long before wfh