If you WFH what time should you start work?

[EatPrayYoga]

If official hours are 9-5, is it a problem if you are not logged on by 9 every day?

I'm a team manager and one person on the team consistently logs on after 9 am. I know because our system shows a green or other colour next to everyone's names in an email so if I email the team I can see who is online and who isn't.

I usually send an email in a morning to confirm any things to be aware of for that day including who is not working that day and who is covering their work.

He usually logs on at about 9.05 but I'm not sure whether to mention this as he is only slightly late. He is in a junior role but wants to progress. There are other people in the same role who start work earlier than 9 to get things done so he stands out as doing less though I can't say who does more or less work in a day as their work is delegated by different members of the team.

I also realise we are in difficult times. He lives with parents and has no children or pets but I believe there are other adult siblings do not sure how easy or difficult the WFH circumstances are.

IABU to be unimpressed?

[ivfbeenbusy]

5 minutes is pretty pedantic

Maybe he works 5 minutes into his lunch? 🤷‍♀️

[EatPrayYoga]

His work otherwise is lacking and there is a general impression of not putting in enough effort or missing deadlines. If I ask for something by a certain time it is often late. There are often basic mistakes.

He is often late to meetings or forgets we have them. I have to say "are you coming to the meeting?"

It's not just the log on time but maybe I should put that aside and focus on the other things that are an issue.

He is behind on work so there is a problem and at least one other person doing the same role gets more done and in a shower yet time and he is no exceptional.

[Elbels]

Sometimes I log on at 7.30, sometimes 9.15. Sometimes I log off at 5.30 and log back on at 7.30pm, sometimes I work until 7. Although in theory my contracted hours are 9-5 I have a great deal of flexibility in my work and I'd hate to be told off for logging on at 9.05 if I knew I was making it up elsewhere.

However if you have broader concerns with his performance then that's where to bring it up and check that he's managing ok.

[Derelictwreck]

The thing is he wants to progress and is competing against others for roles but I know this does not give a great impression. I know people senior to me notice this kind of thing.

Lets be honest, he's not going to progress with attitude/behaviour like this. Realistically the person getting the promotion will be the one stay late/starting early/bending over backward to be helpful.

[LBOCS2]

I think it's about give and take. If the core hours of the business are 9-5 then, without any other information, I would say that he should be logged in and ready to work from 9am. However, as other posters have mentioned, it depends what else is going on. If he's routinely working after 5 then you can turn a blind eye to it as you're getting your paid hours out of him - whereas otherwise he's cutting his working hours short by almost 2hrs a month.

At the moment I have team members who are doing school runs and logging in at 9.15 when they get back, people who are routinely doing longer hours and asking me for TOIL even though we don't have a formal policy as they're feeling run down or tired and I'm always happy to approve - they're being flexible, we're being flexible. I chase my team off their computers if I notice they're logged in after hours. But I don't feel like they're doing the bare minimum they can get away with, and it sounds like you do feel that this person is.

[ForTheLoveOfCatFood]

I would set a 9am call in each morning

I would address it as it would annoy me too, I would just casually say I’ve noticed on occasion when I send my morning email your not online. Can you make sure if your going to be later than 9 you just let me know so I don’t worry.

He might not know you know

[reginaphalangeeee]

Can you send a generic email reminding everyone to be logged on and ready for 9am? I don’t think waiting for a computer to start up is any excuse, if you know it takes 5 mins to start up, turn on the computer in time. I have medical appointments with my son via video call and it takes a couple of minutes to fill in his details so I don’t wait until the appointment time to start the process!

[EatPrayYoga]

He is working to a much coveted role so there needs to be some impressing or he's not going to get it. That's not my decision, it is down to others. I know some senior people in our office raised eyebrows when junior people came in late.

[Derelictwreck]

His work otherwise is lacking and there is a general impression of not putting in enough effort or missing deadlines. If I ask for something by a certain time it is often late. There are often basic mistakes.

Ah yes I have one of these who also thinks he's being held back and is entitled to progress. Makes me wonder what planet he lives on.

[Yesyoudoknowme]

Nip it in the bud. Other team members will have noticed and it breeds resentment. Trust me, I've been there.

[canigooutyet]

My dd is a manager, if everyone isn't online at the start time, as per her role she has to say something.

If you was all in the office and you had someone turning up late, what would you do?

[KurriKawari]

OP is drip feeding now

[notalwaysalondoner]

I have always worked in industries that manage you based on performance, not time worked. I think YABU and will lose good people if you continue to focus on minutes instead of performance. Unless you are on a production line or call centre type job, it’s ludicrous to pull someone up over 5 minutes just because their computer isn’t turned on yet. I can assure you the rest of your team is taking breaks during the day where they are still showing as “online” because they move their mouse occasionally to look like they are there or else their break is short enough the computer doesn’t go to sleep. Which shows how completely ridiculous you are being.

I also agree with others saying that working extra regularly actually indicates a poor performer generally who can’t get their work done in the time available, is bad at prioritising, or procrastinates a lot. It also can indicate they are a workaholic who will struggle with more responsibility due to being obsessed and stressed about work.

You need to realise the younger generation in particular expects respect at work and not to be treated like machines. To make a fuss about five minutes is ludicrous unless there are other performance issues.

[Lexilooo]

Unless there are other issues no.



It is very likely that he is working after 5pm and not taking a full hour for lunch. Do you want to make an issue out of this?



Keep in mind too that he may have issues around his work space that make logging on early difficult. He might have to pack away his kit each night and set it up anew each morning. He might need to wait until another family member has left the house or something.


If there are no issues with his work or his time keeping other than a few minutes in the morning I'd leave it.

[EatPrayYoga]

I am "drip feeding" because my question relates to work start time.

PPs have said their standard of work is relevant so I have mentioned that their work is not to the highest standard and there are issues that come up time and time again. I think maybe if it that was not the case then I would not mind the time but this wasn't a "he is not great generally" thread it was just about start / log in time (which I realise might not be the same thing!)

[canigooutyet]

Remind him that internal promotions are given to those that are reliable. If he wants it he has to put in the hard work because there are people with more experience going for it. Standing out is a good thing, but not for tardiness.

[BeesBehindMyKnees]

Considering your updates, OP, then I would be framing a wider and honest conversation about how to achieve the progress he wants.

Timings may come into it, but as part of a broader conversation regarding how he is perceived in the business.

This should all come from a supportive pov so that he is left feeling like his manager is helping him succeed in his own goals, not just verbally punishing him which I think would be counter productive.

i.e.more "if you want to pogress then consider x y z" than "you are not progressing because of a, b, c".

[Sparklfairy]

Maybe a performance review would be a good idea, including mentioning about coming in late. To be honest there's no excuse - he's saving commuting time, so absolutely should be working by 9.

The other stuff meaning he'll miss out on progression is his loss. Absolutely manage his overall performance, but everyone knows that doing the bare minimum (and below) is not going to earn you a promotion. He'll just have to learn the hard way.

[GingerAndTheBiscuits]

@KurriKawari

OP is drip feeding now

Absolutely. This is nothing to do with his timekeeping and everything to do with general under performance.

Out of interest OP do your staff working all these extra hours get their time back?

[RealBecca]

Oh for goodness sake, your company expects people to be logged on and ready to work at 9am but don't pay the 5 mins or so it takes the computer to load up etc.

He's undoubtedly logging on AT 9am, hence the 5 mins "late" every day.

He's not contracted or paid to log on earlier 'like everyone else'. I wish people would stop expecting staff to give extra all the time. Adjust your attitude. No one has complained to you about the standard or amount of his work. This is your issue with not liking him doing extra for free.

[SocialBees]

Definitely focus on other issues. It would sound pedantic to concentrate on this.

[Lolapusht]

The laptop I use for wfh takes ages to get started so I always switch it on well in advance so I’m ready to start working when I’m meant to. I’m assuming he’s paid to work from 9am? That means he has to be able to work from 9am, not 9.05am. Agree that if he was regularly working past 5pm and could be relied upon to do the work then it wouldn’t be so much of an issue. To the pp who said the others in the team are the ones who need additional support...ha! I think I’ve only had one job where I could genuinely leave at the finishing time without having work to do and that’s nothing to do with not being able to cope or needing training, that’s just work! OP, it’s not necessarily anything major, but maybe have a word with him that you’ve noticed he starts late a few minutes late each morning and while it may not be a major problem, it is the sort of thing that may effect his promotion chances.

[EatPrayYoga]

No we do not get time back.

Admin staff get overtime or flexible working (ie time back) but the rest of us do not.

Thank you for all the replies. They have been very helpful

[Brighterthansunflowers]

You’re his manager. You have concerns about his performance. So actually manage him! Otherwise your manager will start to have concerns about your performance.

[WhereamI88]

I think you're focusing on the wrong thing. Pulling someone up on logging in at 9:05 is very very petty. The kind of thing that would make an otherwise good employee look for something else. His performance generally should be the issue.