If you WFH what time should you start work?

[EatPrayYoga]

If official hours are 9-5, is it a problem if you are not logged on by 9 every day?

I'm a team manager and one person on the team consistently logs on after 9 am. I know because our system shows a green or other colour next to everyone's names in an email so if I email the team I can see who is online and who isn't.

I usually send an email in a morning to confirm any things to be aware of for that day including who is not working that day and who is covering their work.

He usually logs on at about 9.05 but I'm not sure whether to mention this as he is only slightly late. He is in a junior role but wants to progress. There are other people in the same role who start work earlier than 9 to get things done so he stands out as doing less though I can't say who does more or less work in a day as their work is delegated by different members of the team.

I also realise we are in difficult times. He lives with parents and has no children or pets but I believe there are other adult siblings do not sure how easy or difficult the WFH circumstances are.

IABU to be unimpressed?

In my line of work it isn't usually critical to work past your hours, but you are expected to be ready to work by your stated work time. So this person should be at their work station with their laptop ready to go by 9, not 5 past. That said, the current situation means I wouldn't mention it to anyone I managed unless it was a continuing problem from before the wfh change. It is difficult to wfh full time without interaction and five minutes grace is not a lot to give. However, it does seem that this is a part of a bigger pattern of concern. If he wants to progress in this sector with your company, he needs to meet the standards other people are meeting, and he is not. It could be that the job isn't for him, or that a smaller, less competitive firm might suit him better. Finally, if he is happy to jog along as a paralegal and you are happy with his work in that regard, he could choose to stay more or less as he is, but he should acknowledge that to do this he needs to put aside any thought of the higher role as its not realistic for him. I think you are a thoughtful manager who is trying to guide him well, but at the end of the day, he may be lacking the drive to succeed in the role he's looking for, and definitely so at your firm. As nicely as you an, you need to tell him this.

I start ridiculously early usually often by 6.30am. However, as long as he does his hours and delivers then I would be happy with that. What annoys me is when you never know what time people in your team start and finish and never seem to be around

You should be logged on and ready to go at your start time. End of. This isn’t the 80’s... a laptop doesn’t take 5 minutes to warm up!! And even if it did then turn it on at 8:55! It’s not rocket science. He’s late every day, doesn’t have kids to worry about, doesn’t work til 5:05. I mean for all we know his mum makes him breakfast!! He earns a lot and wants a promotion.. he’s being naive and stupid to even think he’s got a chance!

All these people who obsess over 5 minutes... At my work we have total flexi time
People can work whenever they want. I often work late at night or on a Sunday morning. I often take time off in the day.

All my team have the same flexibility.

I just look at productivity and work quality etc.

It feels like we are treated as adults.

I’m a senior professional - and always say “the problem isn’t the problem”.
This isn’t the 5 minutes. It’s the concern he’s not doing enough to get the training contract.
You are in a difficult position and it seems doing what you can. He has a weekly mentor and you - he is very lucky. If he’s not taking the cue now then he may not be right for the ultimate job, and that is the messaging (if you can bear it) that needs to happen. It often doesn’t, so don’t kill yourself over it - we are all human. He will learn and I bet in the end he will settle and be fine.

Sadly these roles are a pyramid. Practices could be arranged in a different way but you can’t change that and have to work within yours.
And finally - it takes many long hours to do it, because the experience you need takes time and that’s not built into the usual 2 or 3 years at the start, and because there are genuinely plenty of very engaged people who want those roles and will work to get them. And - my view - they will inevitably have learnt more and be better professionals. You want a decent lawyer / whatever adviser and that’s how they’re turned out at the big firms.

Anyway - it isn’t nice always. I’d leave the 5 minutes and concentrate on the rest. All the best.

When you physically start in the office at 9, you would usually come in 10-15 mins earlier to make a coffee and get set up so he should be doing the same. But if he isn’t pulling his weight anyway then he does need talking to. Living with parents, not having kids etc has probably made him a bit lazy as when you have kids, it is even more important to have a stable income/job/career etc

It feels like we are treated as adults.

This requires good recruitment practices and good management.

An organisation that is stressing about 5 minutes most likely has poor recruitment practices and ineffective management (unless it's a public facing role, or the 5 minutes prevents tasks being done in a timely manner - but we are talking about an office job here).

I’m a lawyer and timekeeping is important, especially if you are trying to progress in a firm and if there is work being given out at 9 or calls set at those times. When I was a paralegal I worked hard to impress, to get the work done and to get the TC. Logging on slightly late every now and then is not an issue, but if it is consistent it might be. I know training partners who printed out login and logout times and it was an issue for them if people weren’t consistently doing their full hours. When we were in the office we all noticed who was coming in late (or right on 9 am so starting late) and who was finishing bang on 5 (or before) and it did not look good. It’s not hard to start your computer 5 mins early if you are at home so you are ready to go at 9 - this is expected if there is work to do at 9. Whether MN posters here Who don’t work in these environments think that is petty and unreasonable is besides the point; if it is the culture of the firm it is important. If that were the only issue then I would not raise it; but if it is part of a wider issue with his performance he needs to know. And if you know bosses higher up will notice it then you should mention it (in a positive way - don’t forget they notice log on times so make sure you log on a bit early To be ready to start on time!).
The fact is that TC are difficult to get and those paralegals who don’t put in the time and effort won’t get them. He’s already been turned down once. He’s being mentored (which is more than a lot of us had) and has been told what he should do to impress, but isn’t doing it. He hands work in late (which is in issue if there are deadlines or client expectations). He isn’t doing as much work as the others. You say his work has issues and there are issues with client communication. With that slack attitude and those issues, no matter how nice he is, he is unlikely to get a TC and is unlikely to get far in a legal career, especially a higher paid more demanding firm like yours sounds to be. I would keep reminding him In appraisals what things he could do to improve his chances (and note down that you are suggesting these so he has it in writing to look back on). The culture in many law firms, whether this is right or wrong, is that you do work later than your allotted hours if there is urgent work to do. It is the nature of the job, especially some areas of law where it can be quiet sometimes and manic at other times and the work simply has to get done by the deadlines, regardless of when official work hours are. We all notice who puts in the hours and shows willingness to stay late / help out / produces a high standard of work, and who doesn’t. In more flexible offices then if you need to finish early for childcare or an appointment you can, if you also put the time in elsewhere and when the work needs to be completed.
We are all aware which paralegals go the extra mile and which don’t. The ones who finish on the dot of 5 regardless of what work they have or who regularly don’t get the work done in time (when you know how long it should take and what other work they have on) are much less likely to progress.
Obviously working from home is a different environment and everyone is having to be more independent which can make it harder on paralegals who need more support and who do better in an office where they can discuss things more easily. People are struggling mentally and so as a manager you need to offer more support. But the work still needs to be done on time and to the required standard.

YANBU, and I am quite surprised at the results.

Starting work at 9 means you are logged on and ready to start work by 9. It doesn’t mean switch on your computer at 9. Someone swanning into work in an office 5 mins late every day would soon be chinned. If his computer takes 5 mins to warm up he should be switching it on 5 mins earlier.

I start at 9 and have to be available to take client calls from that point. I usually log on and get everything ready to go around 8.45 am.

Maybe the person is struggling mentally during a global pandemic and a drastic way in which they work. No one will know. But 5 mins is hardly an offence. If the work is done then what is the issue.

I wouldn’t make a massive deal of it but I would certainly tell him that this has been noted and ask if there is a reason. If not I would gently remind him his start time is 9.

@rachtimm

Maybe the person is struggling mentally during a global pandemic and a drastic way in which they work. No one will know. But 5 mins is hardly an offence. If the work is done then what is the issue.

Yeah and 5 mins would make such a difference to that wouldn’t it. People really make all sorts of excuses for skivers. Maybe it is that or maybe he’s taking the piss. Hence why she needs to speak to him.

If you are contracted to be there and do the work during certain hours you should be there at that time. My boss would be unimpressed if I swanned off half an hour early every day because my “work was done” or decided to do my work at times that suited me. I don’t see why this is any different or why it’s such a hardship for people to start doing the job they are paid for on time.

I don't know what some of you are so worked up over to be honest.

Probably touched a nerve that they are a bit lazy themselves and lax with start times.

I haven’t read all the posts but is he a paralegal looking for a TC? If so he is there to serve clients surely. If the office opens at 9 and clients start using the services offered at 9 he needs to be there and working at 9!

Plus as a lawyer try and turn up for a hearing 5 minutes late and explain to the judge it doesn’t really matter as it’ll all get done anyway. See where that gets you 😁

Reminds me of the time I slept in - London - and had a trial in Lincoln that day with expert witness who herself was making supreme effort to be there due to family bereavement.
Thank god for old slam door trains and no ticket barriers. Ran alongside the train pulling out at kings cross and flung myself on. Had to get dressed in loos. Wasn’t late. Just can’t be late.
But I’m firmly in the op is bu camp here. 5 mins - logging on at home - with what we are all going through - a quiet word at most. To check everything is ok frankly. And then take it from there.

Honestly if he's a paralegal and he is constantly submitting his work in late and making basic mistakes then that is what I would address in your shoes. The 5 minutes lateness is a much smaller problem.

If someone was five minutes late but got all their work done on time of a good standard I wouldn't be too fussed. Micromanaging a few minutes a day with an otherwise productive employee is a sure fire way to drag down morale.

People are dying of Covid, can't get worked up in the scheme of things

My boss would be unimpressed if I swanned off half an hour early every day because my “work was done” or decided to do my work at times that suited me

This is increasingly how people are managed so your boss is a dinosaur.

It's only 5 minutes. Seems ridiculous to be unduly concerned about it

Keep an eye on his productivity

If he is getting work done and working well say nothing

The best thing about WFH is being a bit more
Flexible

I think that the context is important here. Legal Training Contracts are like gold dust. A paralegal seeking a training contract would generally be making themselves look like the most fabulous employee in order to be the one to stand out from the crowd and be selected. They would be starting early, taking on any extra work that needed to be done, positive attitude, extra research if required, staying up all night to meet a client deadline and generally doing all they could to look great in their role.

I think that in this context the 5 minutes late logging on shows a disrespect or perhaps an immature lack of understanding as to the training contract selection process. (whereas in a different job situation, the 5 minutes wouldn't even be an issue).

If this is just about starting 5 minutes late, then that’s simply micromanaging of the worst sort. I remember working for a solicitor for a few months, who required another employee and me to fill in time-sheets to include every single thing we did during the day, including visits to the toilet. We didn’t stay and our boss ended up closing down.

But it appears that timekeeping isn’t the only issue with this junior colleague and I think you’re right not to bring it up with him. (As others have pointed out, other employees might be online more quickly but disappear for fag breaks/endless caffeine fixes.)

It’s part of a bigger picture of him not putting the work in that is expected. If the other issues weren’t there, I suspect you wouldn’t worry so much about him being 5 minutes late to appear online.

The culture in many law firms, whether this is right or wrong, is that you do work later than your allotted hours if there is urgent work to do

Absolutely. And as a result they would never stress about someone logging on 5 minutes late.

I think that in this context the 5 minutes late logging on shows a disrespect or perhaps an immature lack of understanding as to the training contract selection process

or they know full well that they are being exploited as a paralegal and the training contract will never come. Lots of law firms do that - lure graduates in with the promise of a training contract, but know full well that they will never offer one. That said, I have two colleagues who are paralegals and they do have training contracts with the firm. But the firm I work for does treat its employees like adults.

And if I thought a poorly paid paralegal was staying up all night to meet a client deadline I'd be raising it higher up.

In my personal experience in big firms in London, paralegals (and solicitors) staying up all night to meet urgent client deadlines is absolutely the norm.

And these paralegals do end up with training contracts.