To ask how you came to support Welsh independence?

[TrufflyPig]

Since there was some call for an Annibyniaeth thread on another discussion I thought I would start one. I’d be interested to hear your stories of how you came to support the cause.

Were you always for independence? If not what changed your mind?

I’ll start:

I am actually English, I came to Wales for university nearly 20 years ago and have been here ever since. I have lived in various places throughout Wales over the years. I am married to a Welsh man and have two children.

Like many others I used to laugh at the thought of Wales ever becoming an independent country, the idea seemed so far fetched and ludicrous. I believed a lot of what was said: Wales can’t afford it, it doesn’t have the infrastructure, only the Plaid lot want it etc etc. I even voted no to more devolved powers, I believed in a United Kingdom.

When Scotland had their referendum my husband started to support the idea that Wales could do it too, I still didn’t think so one bit.

Then Brexit happened, I voted remain and I was honestly shocked and upset by the result. I watched the Scottish reaction thinking I would be so angry if I were them, they were warned they wouldn’t get the same EU benefits that they already had if they chose independence but now they have to leave anyway.

So I started looking into it, Scotland seemed to have a lifeline for getting back into EU and
I wanted that too. I also liked Leanne Wood the newly appointed Plaid Cymru leader at the time, I thought her appointment was a bold choice and it might change the image of the party.

I also started to research how smaller nations were using renewable energy as a major income source and Wales was mentioned as a country with potential for this. I started a new job and worked alongside someone who has stood for Plaid Cymru in the assembly elections who sent me links to articles about independence and I would say I become ‘Indy curious’.

What tipped me over the edge was the election last year. I felt helpless. It doesn’t matter how Wales votes one bit. Even if every seat in Wales and Scotland had gone for Labour it would not have been enough to overturn the English Conservative majority.

I put off fully joining Yes Cymru until about a month ago though. The constant anti-devolution rhetoric over Covid restrictions in the media has made me want to be more pro-active in supporting independence. I’m not the only one. Support for Annibyniaeth is at an all time high.

I would say there is more support for abolishing the Welsh Assembly at the moment.

Ha ha ha no, there’s just one guy who spends all day commenting on Wales Online articles. Is that you??

Swmae!

I’m Welsh born and bred and a proud remainer in an area of Wales that is a majority of proud remainers. I’d always felt Wales was better off as part of something bigger, but as England is heading in a more isolationist direction I’ve come around to self-rule.

So many of our economic advantages are stolen from us - just look at the money we could be making out of Welsh water pumped straight to England under our own governance. Wales’s legislation has the Well-being and Future Generations Act, which I love. We are small enough to change and embrace new ways of doing things.

Westminster has no understanding of or interest in us and I loathe the public school boy games that affect us all.

I would have voted against annibyniaeth only 5 years ago, now I would campaign for it. I’m not naive or stupid, I have a good grounding in economics and I don’t believe that England is anything but a dying empire harking back to bygone eras when they got to rape and pillage happily.

I feel like an abused spouse who has suddenly seen that I don’t have to stay with him, and that what I think is security is actually an unhealthy relationship. I want out.

Covid has cemented that feeling. MD’s response has been honourable, data-led and clear. For the first time I feel like we are making our own decisions and doing it well. I want more.

@RinderTinderNotRinderGrinder That post was so good it gave me chills!

@TrufflyPig

I would say there is more support for abolishing the Welsh Assembly at the moment.

Ha ha ha no, there’s just one guy who spends all day commenting on Wales Online articles. Is that you??

No but I'm seeing alot of support for it on social media.

No but I'm seeing alot of support for it on social media.

It’s being deliberately curated by former UKIP/Brexit party members.

Ha ha ha no, there’s just one guy who spends all day commenting on Wales Online articles. Is that you

Yes and then people who don’t live in Wales - and have no idea what is happening in Wales - jump on it. Plus the trolls with fake FB profiles of course 🙄

Did you watch MD doing his interview with WOL earlier? He was trying to answer questions amid all the 😡 faces. Yet the constant 😡 were being posted by the same few people. There were plenty of likes and hearts too. I thought he spoke well.

I wasn’t fond of Drakeford to start with but I have grown to respect the fact that he is trying to do his best for the people of Wales during this pandemic. He doesn’t always get it right but this fire breaker was the right decision.

The constant whining from people though.... why can’t I buy my granddaughter a coat? (You can). What if my kettle breaks? (Boil some water in a saucepan or go to the many online stores to get another one). What if an old man with dementia needs to warm his dinner in the microwave and finds it doesn’t work? (You are allowed to purchase another microwave in this situation). What if.... what if.....

What if everyone realised they do not need to buy non essential items for 17 days? Wouldn’t it be so much easier and safer for everyone?

I’m beginning to realise how many hard of thinking people there are in the UK. Either that or it’s Halloween. The weirdos are certainly out in force! 🤣

Thanks @TrufflyPig, and thanks for the thread. I grew up with many people who wanted independence and it was always quite a niche view. I’ve been amazed by who has told me recently that they’d vote for it - people who I never would have thought would have. Something has shifted.

And yes I’m sick of social media, I don’t trust any of the comments anymore. It’s just used by parties to push an agenda. I try to listen to the facts and weigh it all up without looking at other people’s opinions. As they say, opinions are like arseholes; everyone has one.

@SerendipityJane

From an English point of view, Wales should be streets ahead of Scotland for independence, having it's own language for a start.

Not really. Wales was annexed by England and lost all its institutions. When Scotland signed the Act of Union all our institutions such as education, law religion and Local governance were retained. This basically meant a level of devolved administration existed before legislative devolution happened. Plus, Scottish people have long agitated for more autonomy, we had a Sec of State and Scottish Office long before Wales did. Even the form of devolution introduced in 1999 was different in Scotland than it was in Wales. Scotland got for more devolved powers and Wales didn’t catch up until 2017.

From the 50s onwards lots of engagements have taken place that brought together experts, politicians and members of the public to work out what devolution/Independence should look like. That’s why the referendums in the 70s & 90s produced a higher vote for devolution in Scotland, it’s a subject that’s been talked about intensely for some time. I hope that something similar is happening in Wales that will pave the way for more autonomy or independence if that is what they want.

Interesting post @Amortentia. I didn’t know some of that. Thank you.

Michael Sheen explaining why being aligned with England is different to being aligned with Europe

He explains it better than me!

I feel more European than I do English, and I will never forgive the Tories for setting in motion the process that will take that away from me.

@FlyingFlamingo

Michael Sheen explaining why being aligned with England is different to being aligned with Europe

He explains it better than me!

I feel more European than I do English, and I will never forgive the Tories for setting in motion the process that will take that away from me.

Yes, same.

@bp300

I would say there is more support for abolishing the Welsh Assembly at the moment.

Welsh Government. And I think you will find that many people do not agree with you.

I’m similar to you OP. English born, came here for uni 14 years ago, fell in love with North Wales and never left. I identify more as Welsh than I do English and I would never go back.

IndyWales was never on my radar before coronavirus and, if I’m honest, neither was the WG or Mark Drakeford. I’ve been so, so impressed with MD and his team and the way they speak to people that it made me curious. The last couple of weeks have pushed me over the edge and once my finances are a bit more stable, I’ll probably join Yes Cymru.

MD’s response has been honourable, data-led and clear. For the first time I feel like we are making our own decisions and doing it well. I want more

This. A thousand times this.

@SerendipityJane
"But it's not, is it"

Yes, it is.

But back to the point of the thread, power to your elbow Wales. I'd like to see a Celtic Alliance of Scotland, Wales, ROI & NI (or United Ireland) and Isle of Man. Perhaps with Cornwall and Brittany as associate members.

[quote Mochudubh]@SerendipityJane
"But it's not, is it"

Yes, it is.

But back to the point of the thread, power to your elbow Wales. I'd like to see a Celtic Alliance of Scotland, Wales, ROI & NI (or United Ireland) and Isle of Man. Perhaps with Cornwall and Brittany as associate members.[/quote]
Now that would be a beautiful thing indeed.

@MootingMirror - that's the condescending attitude which will drive Wales towards independence & break up the Union.

I would love to see Wales, Scotland and Ireland joining forces and becoming a United Celtic State

Ooh that's an interesting idea! I can see Cornwall wanting to be part of that too!

Wonder where THAT would leave England?

Well if it's on road signs, in shops and used in official documents then I apologise fulsomely.

But it's not. Is it ?

Erm...I think you'll find it is actually! There are several languages aside from English that are recognised in Scotland

I'm a Scot living in Scotland but who spent most of their childhood in England and a little in Wales (army brat)

I'm pro Scots independence now having voted no in Indyref but so much has changed since! And I'll be honest I'm not sure I fully understood the issues at that point, I understand more now but don't profess to be an expert.

Wales has just as much right to go independent if they wish and I can absolutely see why they would!

Westminster govt has GOT to stop being SO London centric and thinking it can keep feeding Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland and even certain parts of England mere crumbs while expecting us to continue supporting them not only politically but in every way.

On Scots independence threads there's usually at least a few posters from usually areas in the north of England saying "can we join you?"

Seems to me Cameron, May and Johnson's legacy will be the collapse of the uk! Hell if Westminster don't catch on to themselves soon they might find themselves presiding only over the kingdom of Wessex!

Good luck to you
Saor alba!

I’m like you OP.
I am actually welsh. English father, Welsh mother, born and raised in Wales and a welsh speaker.
Didn’t used to support it or think independence was a good idea. Having an English parent made me want everyone to “just get along”.

We’re stronger together was my motto and I generally don’t like nationalism much.

But then. Over the last 3 years or so:

• I have seen how little investment has been and is being made in Wales.

• I have watched my community become more and more impoverished under Tory austerity.

-I realised that not only is the current government elitist, it is corrupt. So many lies about Brexit. So many hypocrites around Covid. They genuinely do not give a fuck.

• I have felt a growing ideological divide between Wales and England. I work in education and I am appalled at the education system over in England. Education is devloved (thank God) but I just watch aghast at what is happening over the border and can plainly see that priorities are so far removed from the priorities and here in Wales.

• I have felt the hostility of the English press towards Wales.

• Going back to Brexit and the current government in general. I just feel ashamed of being British. This country doesn’t stand for the things that I stand for any more. I value multiculturalism. I want to help refugees. I think that rich people and corporations should pay more taxes. I believe in the welfare system and in the NHS. The current gobernment does not believe in these tiings and I am losing hope that we can get a different gobernment any time soon. The Britain I see in the news isn’t anything I want to be a part of any more.

I’d much rather stay part of Britain, if only Britain was a country I still believed in. But much as it saddens me I now think we have little to lose and more to gain as a country by going it alone.

Sorry for all those typos...

I struggle to believe that government by Cardiff is much of an improvement upon government by London. Both places are around four hours from me by train and both feel equally remote.

I might be more easily convinced if the Senedd and the WG were moved to Machynlleth (its historical home) so that they are forced to have an appreciation for life out of the Cardiff bubble. After all, would the transport links within North and Mid Wales be quite so poor if the members had to use them on a regular basis? After all, they paid Arriva a few million every year just so that they could have a first class train to/from work ever day. Would Betsi Cadwaladr UHB be in such a poor state if it were in the constituency of a senior member of the government? The WG is just too south-centric.

I reckon that the same approach would work well for the UK as a whole. Move some of the government departments to York or somewhere.

Its more than just geography though.

The class system in Wales is nothing like it is in England. There are very few independent schools, and none of them approach the likes of Eton or Harrow. We don’t even have grammar schools. 98% of Welsh pupils go through the state comprehensive school system. This means that our leaders do not land where they are by accident of birth / the old boy network. Our politicians are not millionaires with aristocratic backgrounds.

Yes the geography is a problem, but there is so much more than geography wrong in England.

@Sadik

I reckon the worst possible option though would be leaving the UK and joining the EU/signing up to the Euro!

I totally agree with you. I also believe that if Scotland attempts to break away Shetland will become independent like the Isle of Man or will link up with Norway it will not remain part of Scotland. The other Islands will review their options.

@SerendipityJane Scotland does have a language. I wonder why it isn’t used anymore... oh wait it’s because England eradicated it and beat children who spoke Gaelic instead of English.

SerendipityJane Jane your comment is just embarrassing, you’ve never been to Scotland have you? Bilingual signs are everywhere, you only have to get the train to Edinburgh to see it.