To ask how you came to support Welsh independence?

[TrufflyPig]

Since there was some call for an Annibyniaeth thread on another discussion I thought I would start one. I’d be interested to hear your stories of how you came to support the cause.

Were you always for independence? If not what changed your mind?

I’ll start:

I am actually English, I came to Wales for university nearly 20 years ago and have been here ever since. I have lived in various places throughout Wales over the years. I am married to a Welsh man and have two children.

Like many others I used to laugh at the thought of Wales ever becoming an independent country, the idea seemed so far fetched and ludicrous. I believed a lot of what was said: Wales can’t afford it, it doesn’t have the infrastructure, only the Plaid lot want it etc etc. I even voted no to more devolved powers, I believed in a United Kingdom.

When Scotland had their referendum my husband started to support the idea that Wales could do it too, I still didn’t think so one bit.

Then Brexit happened, I voted remain and I was honestly shocked and upset by the result. I watched the Scottish reaction thinking I would be so angry if I were them, they were warned they wouldn’t get the same EU benefits that they already had if they chose independence but now they have to leave anyway.

So I started looking into it, Scotland seemed to have a lifeline for getting back into EU and
I wanted that too. I also liked Leanne Wood the newly appointed Plaid Cymru leader at the time, I thought her appointment was a bold choice and it might change the image of the party.

I also started to research how smaller nations were using renewable energy as a major income source and Wales was mentioned as a country with potential for this. I started a new job and worked alongside someone who has stood for Plaid Cymru in the assembly elections who sent me links to articles about independence and I would say I become ‘Indy curious’.

What tipped me over the edge was the election last year. I felt helpless. It doesn’t matter how Wales votes one bit. Even if every seat in Wales and Scotland had gone for Labour it would not have been enough to overturn the English Conservative majority.

I put off fully joining Yes Cymru until about a month ago though. The constant anti-devolution rhetoric over Covid restrictions in the media has made me want to be more pro-active in supporting independence. I’m not the only one. Support for Annibyniaeth is at an all time high.

How do Welsh independence supporters reconcile opposition to Brexit, with support for what is effectively Wexit? The pro Welsh independence points are so similar to the pro UK independence points. What am I missing?

@PicsInRed

How do Welsh independence supporters reconcile opposition to Brexit, with support for what is effectively Wexit? The pro Welsh independence points are so similar to the pro UK independence points. What am I missing?

How do Brexit supporters reconcile support for Brexit and opposition to Scottish independence ?

Or in a select even less bright Brexiteers, support for English independence and opposition to Scottish independence. (Admittedly you really have to look hard for that level of stupid).

Besides, if we weren't capable of holding contradictory views, would we still be human ?

From an English point of view, Wales should be streets ahead of Scotland for independence, having it's own language for a start

If not being understood by the English is a pre-requisite of independence, Scotland should be a shoe in 😂

Why can't people support independence AND Brexit? Surely going independent doesn't automatically mean rejoining the EU?

@SerendipityJane

From an English point of view, Wales should be streets ahead of Scotland for independence, having it's own language for a start.

Scotland does have its own language though... sorry, am I missing an obvious joke (this happens a lot)?

I have lived, primarily, in Wales all my life. I have lived for short periods in England. Wales is where my heart is.

I have toyed with the idea of an Independent Wales but was not sure how we would survive on our own, especially with Scotland breaking away.

The Brexit vote was a disappointment, however it became clear that a large majority of the people who voted in Wales were not, in fact, Welsh.

After experiencing the leadership of Wales and England during 2020 I think my misgivings about whether Wales could survive without England have been addressed. We are doing significantly better than England. As are Scotland and Ireland. We can even afford to feed hungry children! I’m all for Welsh Independence now. I would love to see Wales, Scotland and Ireland joining forces and becoming a United Celtic State (or whatever) but that will never happen.

@SerendipityJane

I'm curious what you think Scots Gaelic is.

Scotland does have its own language though... sorry, am I missing an obvious joke (this happens a lot)?

Well if it's on road signs, in shops and used in official documents then I apologise fulsomely.

But it's not. Is it ?

happy to concede there's Scots English though. A language which Frankie Boyle noted uses the word "fucking" to announce there's a noun on the way.

I think opposing Brexit and supporting independence is entirely logical.

Wales would be able to ask to join the EU, should they decide that's what they wanted, if they were an independent country. Currently they are forced into the English position.

And while they did vote for Brexit, my perception is that that they would be likely to vote against Brexit if they had the opportunity to vote again. But that's just based on the people I know in Wales, and could be totally wrong.

The Brexit vote was a disappointment, however it became clear that a large majority of the people who voted in Wales were not, in fact, Welsh.

So will an independent Wales kick out it's non-Welsh population then? Or perhaps let them stay but remove their right to vote?

Gaelic is an official language of Scotland. There are also many dialects in Scotland.

Not sure how that's relevant to independence though.

America, Canada, Australia and New Zealand seem to be doing okay without being part of the UK, and that's not including the very many smaller countries that also have English as an official language.

From an English point of view, Wales should be streets ahead of Scotland for independence, having it's own language for a start.

Is this a joke?

if you become independent, how high do you think all of your taxes will rise? Services would have to be cut, are you prepared for that?

You will need your own currency unless you're happy to keep the pound and have zero control over financial laws and interest rates.

Pob lwc you will need it.

@SerendipityJane

Scotland does have its own language though... sorry, am I missing an obvious joke (this happens a lot)?

Well if it's on road signs, in shops and used in official documents then I apologise fulsomely.

But it's not. Is it ?

happy to concede there's Scots English though. A language which Frankie Boyle noted uses the word "fucking" to announce there's a noun on the way.

Oh, right- if your definition of having its own language was one used on road signs, in shops and in official documents it might have been helpful to say so though!

Some road signs in Scotland definitely have Scots Gaelic, there was quite the hoo hah about it before.

How do Brexit supporters reconcile support for Brexit and opposition to Scottish independence ?

Scottish hard core remainer/independence supporters are also a contradiction.

It's all "independence", and for the exact same stated reasons. 🤷‍♀️

(I don't oppose Wexit or Scexit btw 😉)

It's not really a contradiction to want independence and be part of the EU.

At the moment, independence is the only possible route to remaining within the EU.

I feel the same way about Scotland, I went there for uni (from Yorkshire originally) and was studying there during both the independence referendum and Brexit referendum. I voted to remain in both and was in one of the highest remain constituencies for both. While I don't think the time for right for independence at the time given the chance to vote now (or 2016 tbh) I would vote for independence.

Scotland (and parts of Wales) are really out of step with the current voting patterns in England. Their interests are not represented in parliament very well and the laws enacted are not always appropriate for Scotland and it's population. I still think there may be an issue with trade with the rest of the UK (won't really be the UK but not sure what else to call it) and currency but Scotland's values are better represented by the EU than UK (particularly England at the moment). I can't currently see myself voting SNP (Scottish nationalism is as toxic as English nationalism in many parts) but would vote for independence, particularly in light of the Brexit vote and handling of Corona Virus.

I distinctly remember 'no' being sold to Scots as a way to guarantee remaining in the EU. Look at how things have turned out- how can supporting Scottish independence be seen as incompatible with opposing Brexit?

I'm on the fence regarding independence, but my main reason for supporting it would be economic, and conditional on Wales adopting an independent currency.

If you look at the position of Greece & the other southern states in the Euro - tied to a very much stronger economy (Germany) that runs a persistent surplus - Wales is in essentially the same position vis a vis the SE of England.

Greece, Italy, southern Spain are tied into a situation where the Euro is persistently over-valued in relation to the strength of their economies, while it is persistently under-valued for Germany. That means it continues to be much harder than it should be for eg Spanish businesses to export, and overly cheap for Spanish citizens to borrow money / buy imported goods.

And vice versa, very easy for German businesses to export while an undervalued currency discourages German citizens from borrowing / buying imported goods at the rate that their economy would warrant.
An independent Wales with a separate currency and independent monetary policy would have a lower GDP than England, and in the short term people would have to accept lower incomes, but longer term Wales would be able to build a resilient economy based on the country's strengths and in the medium to longer term better jobs & incomes across the board.

I reckon the worst possible option though would be leaving the UK and joining the EU/signing up to the Euro!

@SerendipityJane

Scotland does have its own language though... sorry, am I missing an obvious joke (this happens a lot)?

Well if it's on road signs, in shops and used in official documents then I apologise fulsomely.

But it's not. Is it ?

happy to concede there's Scots English though. A language which Frankie Boyle noted uses the word "fucking" to announce there's a noun on the way.

Oh dear. Cheap and inaccurate. Yes we do have Gaelic on road signs etc, and Frankie Boyle is merely a comedian who uses bad language. I take it there are no English that use such language then?

I've been pro Wales independence since I was a young teenager, which is quite strange as my parents didn't come round to it until very recently. I was brought up in a Welsh speaking area but most people thought Wales was too small to be independent. I remember talking to someone from Malta and thinking that there is no reason we can't be independant too.

I joined Yes Cymru last week, not sure what took me so long!

@SerendipityJane

Scotland does have its own language though... sorry, am I missing an obvious joke (this happens a lot)?

Well if it's on road signs, in shops and used in official documents then I apologise fulsomely.

But it's not. Is it ?

happy to concede there's Scots English though. A language which Frankie Boyle noted uses the word "fucking" to announce there's a noun on the way.

“Happy to concede there’s Scots English though....”

Now I know you’re just taking the piss now 😂

Scottish Gaelic is an official language of Scotland. HTH.

How do Welsh independence supporters reconcile opposition to Brexit, with support for what is effectively Wexit?

If Wales and Scotland felt like they were part of a democratic union of equals then it wouldn’t feel much need to leave. You can’t compare the two. The history between Wales and England is not the same as between the UK and the EU.

I would say there is more support for abolishing the Welsh Assembly at the moment.

@SerendipityJane

Scotland does have its own language though... sorry, am I missing an obvious joke (this happens a lot)?

Well if it's on road signs, in shops and used in official documents then I apologise fulsomely.

But it's not. Is it ?

happy to concede there's Scots English though. A language which Frankie Boyle noted uses the word "fucking" to announce there's a noun on the way.

But it is. The road signs have both on them (certainly round my neck of the woods) I work for the Scottish Government & both languages are on all documents we send out. Scots English? That’s just rude & makes you look daft.