I'm sick of people from Northern England who voted tory complaining on the news

[ssd]

Suck it up. You voted for them. No one made you.

Everyone is entitled to have a moan, but seriously, WHY WHY WHY did you ever vote tory thinking they'd got your back?!?!

'But I don't think it matters now anyway. I can see Scotland becoming independent in the next few years. Unless Labour really gets its act together which is looking doubtful.'

I hope so too op. I look forward to the day we see the back of grabby, hypocritical #ThankyouNicola from our telly screens. She gets a very easy ride from the biased scottish media. Highest carehome deaths, a very small population, very low density of population compared to England yet she lost control weeks ago, way before this second wave hit. You carry on seal clapping though op .

"We never saw hide nor hair of the old Labour MP and did not see hide nor hair of the new Labour candidate because they both presumed the seat was safe, zero effort required. Know who people did see? The lying cunt of a Tory MP. Out there knocking on doors, walking around the town centres talking to people, going to the village fairs, listening to what people were telling him and making promises to represent those views down in Westminster. Obviously he was talking out of his arse but at the time people believed him because he was visible and he was listening. "

I've been saying that since 2015

On the face of it, it's so simple: get out there and talk to people. It's how Farage wormed his way in.

Look deeper, and it's not so simple.
How do they find time to go out and talk to the people? It's obvious, isn't it? They don't work in ordinary jobs. They get funding elsewhere.
Labour may have far more members, but they don't have anything like the donations that the Conservatives can command. LibDems are also not nearly as well funded. They have to target their efforts and that enabled the Conservatives to claim that Labour are taking areas for granted. Yes, they probably did: they had to in order to make any inroads to other areas.

Until the political funding of parties is properly investigated and addressed, there will never be a fair playing field.
Relying on these donors leaves all parties wide open to corruption.

Agreed uggmum, life is looking unsalvageable right now. If Trump is re elected I will give up altogether I think. He is the embodiment of everything vile, fomenting hatred and division and spreading it as far as possible. Given the hold that his kind of politics is gaining worldwide our domestic squabbles are just adding to it. It seems unstoppable. Its very depressing.

I couldn’t believe my ears the other day when I saw Trump’s rally in Florida and he actually said, “We don’t want a liberal President. We don’t want a WOMAN President. We won’t stand for it... “ And all the women in the crowd were cheering for that.

If you want something scary for Halloween, have a look on YouTube for “Real Women Vote For Trump.” It’s a song and video and going viral (I’m not sure whether that’s because people can’t believe it, or they think it’s fantastic).

I actually think Trump might get in again, people ARE that daft.

@Livelovebehappy

I think the attitude of a lot of labourites following Corbyn suspension yesterday from the party explains pretty much the blinkered attitude they adopt - there’s been a full enquiry, the previous labour leader was found to be seriously lacking as regards how he dealt with antisemitism in the party and yet people are tearing up their labour memberships because they still don’t believe the outcome of the enquiry. Tory supporters are well aware of Boris’ shortcomings, but labour supporters are absolutely in denial that their party is so bad it’s pretty much unelectable. Instead of focusing on how labour can be improved to represent an electable opposition party again, they just focus on the Tories and their supporters.

Like most generalisations that’s patently untrue. For every pro Corbyn Labour supporter who’s gnashing their teeth and wailing over his suspension, there’s at least one more erstwhile Labour voter rejoicing over it and seeing this as a decisive moment in making the party electable again. I’m one of them.

Like most generalisations that’s patently untrue. For every pro Corbyn Labour supporter who’s gnashing their teeth and wailing over his suspension, there’s at least one more erstwhile Labour voter rejoicing over it and seeing this as a decisive moment in making the party electable again. I’m one of them.

And I'm another one.

And labour would a miraculously have made the virus vanish and all would be well.

I’m not a Labour voter, but I want Labour so sort our their mess to keel the Conservatives in check. Only a strong opposition can do that, otherwise we are at disadvantage.

Keep

why people didn't vote Labour in 2010, etc. Perhaps they cared about the vulnerable?
Tony Blair's war on the disabled had really taken effect by then

TB wasn't PM then, Brown was, followed by Miliband in 2015.
Anyone who votes Tory based on their care for the vulnerable is not looking at the policies of successive tory governments.

The Cons have opposed every single bit of legislation that has bettered the lot of the working classes, from the NHS, min wage to the open university and has introduced policies that limit and or stop social mobility (i'm esp thinking super high tuition fees and nurse bursaries), pre CV the worst for decades.

@Londoncatshed

And labour would a miraculously have made the virus vanish and all would be well.

Yes, that fatuous nonsense really moved the debate on.

@VinylDetective You’re right, it didn’t move the debate on and was a throw away comment but it was my first thought in response to the OPs heading. I couldn’t be bothered going through the 22 pages and form a long winded argument. Will leave you to it.

@Livelovebehappy

I think the attitude of a lot of labourites following Corbyn suspension yesterday from the party explains pretty much the blinkered attitude they adopt - there’s been a full enquiry, the previous labour leader was found to be seriously lacking as regards how he dealt with antisemitism in the party and yet people are tearing up their labour memberships because they still don’t believe the outcome of the enquiry. Tory supporters are well aware of Boris’ shortcomings, but labour supporters are absolutely in denial that their party is so bad it’s pretty much unelectable. Instead of focusing on how labour can be improved to represent an electable opposition party again, they just focus on the Tories and their supporters.

It's not all, but there does seem to be a core that are like that.

And it's similar among the Democratic Party in the US, or some of our leftist (supposedly) parties here in Canada.

There is a certain group of people who don't really seem to get that they need to represent people to get elected. It's more like they have an activist or lobbyist mindset.

The more right parties, at least the centre right ones, seem a lot more practical about governance. And in recent years here, while the left parties have disconnected from local party organisations, many of the right wing ones seem to actually have become more connected to the local grassroots than they were before. So their policies seem to be more in line with what local members are interested in.

@Goosefoot, nice analysis.

The Corbyn anti-Semitism row that has swept around the Labour party had to happen at some point - better now than before next year's local elections or the national battle in 2024. There's massive hill to climb before Labour becomes an electable threat to the Tories, again..

What will be interesting is how the new northern conservatives will act; they are acutely aware they can be ditched in three years time if they don't stand up for their constituents.

@jasjas1973

why people didn't vote Labour in 2010, etc. Perhaps they cared about the vulnerable? Tony Blair's war on the disabled had really taken effect by then

TB wasn't PM then, Brown was, followed by Miliband in 2015.
Anyone who votes Tory based on their care for the vulnerable is not looking at the policies of successive tory governments.

The Cons have opposed every single bit of legislation that has bettered the lot of the working classes, from the NHS, min wage to the open university and has introduced policies that limit and or stop social mobility (i'm esp thinking super high tuition fees and nurse bursaries), pre CV the worst for decades.

It was Tony Blair who launched the war on the disabled. Starting with dismantling the Department of Social Security and changing it into the disabled erasing Department of Work and Pensions.

It was Blair that started the disability benefit 'reforms' and it was under his leadership that began the narrative of 'benefit scroungers'.

Both sides of the political arena reported on it at the time. Here's some examples.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1332843/Blair-faces-a-revolt-on-disabled-checks.html

www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2001/jul/05/politicalnews.politics

You're right about Brown being no friend of the disabled though. He continued the attack on the vulnerable. It was his time as PM that saw the start of cuts to housing benefit. Following governments enthusiastically continued down the attack the disabled road - but we mustn't forget who set us on that path.

welfareweekly.com/tony-blair-destroyed-britains-faith-benefits-system-claim-researchers/

From the linked article:
Researchers claim that during the 1980’s and most of the 1990’s the majority of people believed that benefit payments were too low, causing severe hardship among the poorest in society, and should be increased.

However, after 1999 a growing number of people adopted the view that benefits were too generous and should be cut. It was around this time that a resurgence in the derogatory ‘scrounger’ rhetoric, more akin to Dickensian Britain, began to resurface and has continued ever-since.

I voted Conservative OP. Boris is absolutely awful, I agree. But I still don’t regret not voting for Jeremy Corbyn. Irrelevant, but If David Milliband or someone of his ilk had been the Labour Party leader, I might have considered it. Corbyn would have done no better in the current situation, in my opinion.

@SheepandCow Yes as you say, continued every since.....

Labour, under Blair was Red Tory but the years of austerity from 2010 onwards has reduced benefits, esp disability ones, far in excess of Blair.

I certainly cannot defend many of the things Labour did but compared to Osborne and Cameron, they were saints.
Brexit, a tory idea, unthinkable under Labour, will make this country much poorer and even less help for the vulnerable.

Brexit, a tory idea, unthinkable under Labour
Ah well... Apart from Corbyn being a long-standing Brexiter (he voted against ever joining in the 70s), there's this about Blair...

www.google.com/amp/s/www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/tony-blairs-election-pledges-1983-12938528.amp

And yes Osborne and Cameron did indeed continue to enthusiastically attack the disabled. No surprise. Cameron self identified as 'the heir to Blair'...

But it was Blair and Brown who sowed the seeds. They set us on that path. Manipulated the public to make them support it. Demonstrated to their successors that the public would accept it.

We must never forget their role in the suffering and destitution suffered by the vulnerable - as a direct result of their actions.

Blair was fundamentally a Thatcherite. Just like Clinton followed the path set out by Reagan. Since 1980 there has really been no alternative to neoliberalism and trickle down theory offered to the voters. So I can see why some were really keen on the idea of Corbyn and an actual leftist party.

The problem was they had lost touch with their voters and embraced identity politics.

I'm quite sure some wanted leftist policies - just without the racism and misogyny infecting Corbyn's Labour.

Still sick, op? Told you this was heading your way. Luckily, Johnson gives a shit about fucking up his base so furlough is temporarily restored. How would you have felt if they had forced a 66% furlough nationwide?

It's such amazingly bad politics to have pissed off so many people in the north for the sake of what turned out to be a few extra days of restrictions. This is what happens when you do everything on the hoof though. That GM stunt could easily cost them half a dozen seats at the next election.