I'm sick of people from Northern England who voted tory complaining on the news

[ssd]

Suck it up. You voted for them. No one made you.

Everyone is entitled to have a moan, but seriously, WHY WHY WHY did you ever vote tory thinking they'd got your back?!?!

The point of my posts is not to be nasty, nor to argue either for or against Brexit.

It's simply that it's very important that people outside of London do not think that the media stereotype represents all (or even most) Londoners.

Whether you are a Leaver or Remainer, do not think London only voted one way.

Like I said. 1 million Londoners voted to Leave.

The city is diverse in every way. Including level of income, and separately politically.

Sheep, I don’t know how my kids will be able to get on the property ladder in this area though. Not without a lot of help. I do think things have changed for this generation, in terms of expecting to stay in the community you were born in.

@zeb1

It can be a bit odd though being called a “liberal” as if it’s suddenly a dirty word. I live in SW London and I don’t think that we have any less if a sense of community than anywhere else. I know all my neighbours. When I go out locally, I’ll always bump into people. But what makes the community stronger is that nobody was born here. Well nobody I know and I’ve lived here 20 years. I would hate to live in a place where people were looked at as “newcomers,” by the “real population” or whatever. So if that makes me a liberal, I’ll take that. Anyway, the LDs got in here (Richmond-upon-Thames borough). If places want to just stay stuck in time with the same people for generations after generation, they will get left behind, or they die. It’s inevitable really.

It's nice that you know your neighbours and have a sense of community in your neighbourhood, but I wonder if you realise the extent to which having people like bankers as your neighbours means that no, actually, you aren't interdependent with each other, or the place you live, in the same way a community based on long-term, intergenerational residents is?

Even in big cities like London, you often see working class newcomer communities setting themselves up in much the same kinds of networks that the communities you are suggesting are unwelcoming have, because they are very resilient. It's the way most communities are set up all over the world.

It probably shouldn't be a surprise that if you think that should come to an end, the people living in those places aren't going to vote the way you want, and will see you as attempting to destroy their way of life. I have to wonder if you would you make demands like that of people living in any other part of the world?

It might also be worth asking who are the ultimate beneficiary of people having to move where the work is, and gentrification of neighbourhoods, and lack of real ties in communities.

The mobile work force wasn't invented for the good of the workforce.

Sorry @zeb1
I didn't mean to come across so aggressive. It's not aimed at you. It's the media driven regional division.

It's a bugbear of mine - people in other parts of the country buying into the stereotype of 'rich out of touch Londoners'.

The reality is it's very diverse income-wise as well as everything else.

I'm passionate about the need for more council housing. Mass council housing across the country.

It's wonderful when people want to broaden their horizons - explore living in different areas - but terrible when others (particularly the more vulnerable) are priced away from their family and support networks. It's led to a fractured society.

YABVU. It doesn't matter who you voted for or even if you voted, we all have every right to criticise the government, and to call out politicians when they don't do what they said they'd do.

@Goosefoot

It might also be worth asking who are the ultimate beneficiary of people having to move where the work is, and gentrification of neighbourhoods, and lack of real ties in communities.

The mobile work force wasn't invented for the good of the workforce.

True.

@Goosefoot

It might also be worth asking who are the ultimate beneficiary of people having to move where the work is, and gentrification of neighbourhoods, and lack of real ties in communities.

The mobile work force wasn't invented for the good of the workforce.

This.

Far better would be accessible work and housing opportunities distributed more equally across the UK.

There's a big difference between travelling (regionally or internationally) by choice versus being forced away for economic or other reasons.

A diverse welcoming community is fantastic. But it's not truly welcoming if people are unable to stay (whether because of no job opportunities or unaffordable housing).

zeb1

You call yourself a liberal and come out with this gem

If places want to just stay stuck in time with the same people for generations after generation, they will get left behind, or they die. It’s inevitable really

Oh my god that is straight out of Thatchers handbook

Boris Johnstone isn’t on your side of you are working class northerner or a upper class southerner. He’s only out for himself and it’s pretty obvious.

Yet both types voted for him in droves....

@RHTawneyonabus

Boris Johnstone isn’t on your side of you are working class northerner or a upper class southerner. He’s only out for himself and it’s pretty obvious.

Yet both types voted for him in droves....

Or they voted against racist misogynistic militant grew up in a Dorset manor house prep schoolboy Corbyn.

Instead of castigating people for voting the way you don't think they should have, why not look instead at the reasons why they didn't vote for the alternative.

I like how the OP had their previous 'why did the north vote' tory thread deleted because it didn't quite go how they wanted

The fundemental point isn't that the red wall voted tory and moan about the situation, it's people like the OP and others who still have had applied no critical thinking and realised why they rejected labour, and before it gets mentioned it isn't because of the 'right wing press'

To try and be so parental over this situation just comes across how uterly tribal you are and that you are not that politicly aware, or in touch with the northern working class that you thought you could ignore as a voting block.

It's been 10 years now, you should be over the denial stage, time to engage the critical thinking.

There’s a huge difference between absorbing “incomers” of whichever country into a community and the community effectively disappearing .What if London didn’t stay the multicultural, well paid hub it is? What if Covid changes London into something else?

The idea that towns that don’t change are sad is ridiculous. They’re the towns people like. Who wants the homogeneous MacDonald towns that non identity leads to?

My town has become one of those places Londoners move to. The change in dynamics has been horrific. We gave gone from quirky market town to being on the brink of being an anonymous dormitory town - dead all week, packed out at the weekend. House prices through the roof which has a knock in effect on rents. So the lowest paid ( often young locals )move away. And local community traditions fizzle out as they gave to managed by committee as no one has the time or interest to do the good stuff.
Ironically majority of incomers are the art/media/ types who vote Labour and are very detersive of what’s a very safe Tory seat they moved to. But it’s noticeable that the town has become bland.

I get why they rejected Labour but I'll never understand why they accepted the tories.

@SheepandCow

Instead of castigating people for voting the way you don't think they should have, why not look instead at the reasons why they didn't vote for the alternative.

...they also didn't vote for the alternative in 2010, 2015, 2017 and 2019, too easy to blame on JC, fundamentally, we are a right wing country.

I couldn't care less how people voted, societally, we get the Govts we deserve, CV shows that having a under funded NHS & educational system isn't a great idea but we'll vote for it all again in 2024.

But i do find really weird is people vote for something and then when they get it, they complain & i'm thinking of the many i know who voted for Brexit and then moan they can't retire to the Algarve etc.
Or people who voted Tory thinking they would invest in their communities and then find they wont, as if they could be surprised!

And the thing is, communities with deep roots are often the ones who can absorb new people and integrate them and really help them settle. Because they have the social capital to do it.

But only to a certain extent. Even in a town that's pretty welcoming by nature, when you have an economy becoming dependent on cheaper labour, or family housing all being converted into flats, or schools over-subscribed, it's not going to work for anyone.

And no one here has given me a decent argument why they accepted the tories philosophies.
There's been plenty explanations of why people in the North of England turned against Labour, some of them I think are bullshit but hey ho.
But what was it that made them turn round and think the Conservative party led by Boris Johnson was a better idea?
That's the bit I don't understand.
Being Scottish I couldn't vote Conservative if you paid me. Maybe we're just used to getting shafted by the tories and never believed the bluster and lies.

But I don't think it matters now anyway. I can see Scotland becoming independent in the next few years. Unless Labour really gets its act together which is looking doubtful.

Yes yabvvvvu.
I voted for Tony Blair. Now I would NEVER touch him with a bargepole, because hindsight.
But still. Democracy exists, it’s what our people LITERALLY died for. It makes me sick that twats on mumsnet think they can disown and attack people for voting using their own free will for a party they have weighed up the informed options for. The ‘agree with me or I will drag you through the mud’ culture is fuxking abysmal. We live in a democracy, a free world. You are allowed to support and like something and then call them our on the wrongs. From your view then, anyone Jewish needs to get over it and shut up about their own personal abuse because they voted.
You are very simple if this is real.

@ssd

I get why they rejected Labour but I'll never understand why they accepted the tories.

What else would they do, write in a personal choice on the ballot, or spoil it?

I'm sure some chose third parties, and some spoiled, but the way the system is set up it's dominated by two major parties, whatever those happen to be in a given era.

They have to work in the given system just like everyone else.

Spoiled my paper.

@ssd

And no one here has given me a decent argument why they accepted the tories philosophies. There's been plenty explanations of why people in the North of England turned against Labour, some of them I think are bullshit but hey ho. But what was it that made them turn round and think the Conservative party led by Boris Johnson was a better idea? That's the bit I don't understand. Being Scottish I couldn't vote Conservative if you paid me. Maybe we're just used to getting shafted by the tories and never believed the bluster and lies.

But I don't think it matters now anyway. I can see Scotland becoming independent in the next few years. Unless Labour really gets its act together which is looking doubtful.

If you want the LP to win you might think about voting for them yourself. The SNP has been a disaster for them. Take some responsibility.

Instead of castigating people for voting the way you don't think they should have, why not look instead at the reasons why they didn't vote for the alternative.

Self reflection isn't something they do, they have positioned themselves as being moral just as long as you don't get into the nitty gritty details.

Despite the so called apparent highly educated tag that the labour activists posters like to profess, they have been out of touch with the general population worldwide for over a decade.

MN is just twitter lite with regards to intellect nuanced political discussion, threads are usualy stared by some one seeing some hot take twitter trend

MN was full on multiple 1000 post thread love for Macron a couple of years ago, basic rule for MN political discussion is look at some outrage op-ed in the guardian and wait a couple of days for it to appear on MN.

@Justanotherlurker

I like how the OP had their previous 'why did the north vote' tory thread deleted because it didn't quite go how they wanted

The fundemental point isn't that the red wall voted tory and moan about the situation, it's people like the OP and others who still have had applied no critical thinking and realised why they rejected labour, and before it gets mentioned it isn't because of the 'right wing press'

To try and be so parental over this situation just comes across how uterly tribal you are and that you are not that politicly aware, or in touch with the northern working class that you thought you could ignore as a voting block.

It's been 10 years now, you should be over the denial stage, time to engage the critical thinking.

Got a point here.....

I'll vote snp until Labour are worth voting for again.
I like Nicola sturgeon but if we become independent I'd rather see a strong Labour government.
But even if I was sick of the snp or Labour I wouldn't vote Conservative. I'd probably vote for the green party instead.