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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

I'm sick of people from Northern England who voted tory complaining on the news

557 replies

ssd · 27/10/2020 22:54

Suck it up. You voted for them. No one made you.

Everyone is entitled to have a moan, but seriously, WHY WHY WHY did you ever vote tory thinking they'd got your back?!?!

OP posts:
SheepandCow · 29/10/2020 22:17

@thecatsatonthewall
You ask why people didn't vote Labour in 2010, etc. Perhaps they cared about the vulnerable?
Tony Blair's war on the disabled had really taken effect by then. His contempt for the working class was less disguised too. When he got in there was still a fair amount of council housing left. He not only didn't end right to buy, he enthusiastically continued it and played a major role in the housing bubble with his push for buy to let.

ssd · 29/10/2020 22:18

Right enough it must be shit in England to have no alternative to either labour or Conservative.

OP posts:
SheepandCow · 29/10/2020 22:23

Separate from other politics I'm far more impressed with Sturgeon's handling of the pandemic than the Westminster government. Not that I think Corbyn would've done any better. I noticed today he's one of those people who wears their masks below the nose. Politicians should lead by example. Nicola knows this. I've not seen her on the telly without her personalised tartan mask (she's even got her initials on it). That's the way to do it.

Justanotherlurker · 29/10/2020 22:23

@ssd

I get why they rejected Labour but I'll never understand why they accepted the tories.
I imagine somewhere in your list is 'right wing media' so do not really understand why people rejected labour.

You only have to see thread pre election of the vocal left wing whining about how 80k a year isn't a wage that should be taxed more, it is about you being out of touch, not why others vote differenly.

Labour thought they had a guaranteed vote, it is for Labour to realise why, not try and induce some paternalistic response.

It is for you to do some self reflection as to why you are out of touch politically.

Justanotherlurker · 29/10/2020 22:32

@ssd

Right enough it must be shit in England to have no alternative to either labour or Conservative.
I'm not sure why you are worried, our nationalist equivilent UKIP doesn't poll well.
Goosefoot · 29/10/2020 22:33

@ssd

I'll vote snp until Labour are worth voting for again. I like Nicola sturgeon but if we become independent I'd rather see a strong Labour government. But even if I was sick of the snp or Labour I wouldn't vote Conservative. I'd probably vote for the green party instead.
You can't be serious.
Liquorishlucy · 29/10/2020 22:34

So rather than just bashing labour now, what are the solutions ?
Labour couldn't help the fact that more educated m/c metropolitan types felt at home in the labour party, supported identity politics and social activism (although wasn't the union movement a good example of social activism ?). Surely the appeal of social activism comes about because you acknowledge your priviledges and want to create more a more equal society, sadly that desire was seen as patronising (and maybe was in its depiction of the poor as all grindingly poor, on nmw and exploited by unscrupulous employers).
My experience is that some w/c communities were more politically disengaged than m/c ones (look at the huge numbers who don't vote) they've drifted away from traditional institutions associated with the labour movement like the unions, which have far less influence now so feel less connected; it's not like the labour party was suddenly invaded by hoards of m/c people, just that more m/c types chose to get involved in politics than w/c.

longwayoff · 29/10/2020 22:35

Fully agree ssd. Utterly awful that this happened. Some years ago, a Tory MP owned 5 or 6 ex council houses in a Westminster terrace, former residents having been paid off to shove off having used their discount to buy then selling to him at a profit but still way below market rate. He wont have been alone. Makes my blood boil especially when one of these heavily subsidised home owners starts banging on about their massive success and class elevation. Enriching one generation at the expense of its successors. I need to shut up. Blood boiling now.

zeb1 · 29/10/2020 22:42

It’s never going to happen that economic opportunities are spread evenly across nations or globally. There will always be economic hubs that draw people. And yes, I would say that about other countries because that is exactly why I came to the UK. And why my DH’s family came to the UK from a different continent. When my kids are older, they will go wherever they feel offers the best opportunities for their abilities. If that’s China or wherever, so be it. You can’t pretend you can stop human migration. Its always happened and always will.

I can totally understand how, in an area like Boston in Lincolnshire, which had the highest Brexit vote, the wave of EU immigration from Eastern European countries would have been felt as more if a “shock”. Firstly, their population increased by something like 16%, so that would be noticeable in an area of low investment as it was. Also, those areas are more culturally homogenous, so again, immigration is much more noticeable.

I think I read somewhere that pre- 2004, 80% of EU immigrants to the UK (like me)! settled in the Greater London area / SE. After 2004, when the A10 countries acceded membership of the EU and Blair welcomed them in, this marked a different migration flow because this workforce from Eastern European countries came to fill jobs in the agricultural / processing sectors that, frankly, British “locals” wouldn’t do. This is why they went to places like Lincolnshire. It destabilised communities that had never recovered from Thatcher. Also, when people feel left behind and alienated, it’s always easier to point the finger at the “other” eg. Immigrants.

Meanwhile, a more affluent demographic in London who felt they had everything to gain from globalisation, also felt they benefitted from the surge in eg Polish plumbers (you could never get one to show up before this), builders, nannies etc.

So yes, of course I see how the different perspectives have emerged according to different regional, socio-economic experiences.

But I still maintain, that the Brexit vote in some areas wasn’t all down to anger about being left behind, wanting change, etc. Why wait to 2016 to suddenly need to change the entire voting history of generations? There was an underbelly of xenophobia mixed in there too, whether they can admit it to themselves or not. If Cummings had never been let loose with his slogans and Farage had been thrown in the Channel on day one, Brexit or the EU would never have been on anyone’s radar. The red wall would never have had its wondrous epiphany to turn blue in order to “Take Back Control” or whatever bullocks Cummings told them, and those communities would be Labour today as they always were.

ssd · 29/10/2020 22:44

God UKIP, I'd forgotten about them!!

OP posts:
Goosefoot · 29/10/2020 22:50

It’s never going to happen that economic opportunities are spread evenly across nations or globally.

Cities and to some extent towns have always had certain kinds of work. And the industrial revolution made that more the case.

But the current period is pretty unprecedented in terms of the gravity of big cities, and it's not economically healthy, or environmentally sustainable for that matter. It's not a natural growth, it's tied to certain types of growth in sectors like banking. It's more like cancerous growth than anything else (rather like banking itself.)

ssd · 29/10/2020 22:52

Totally agree zeb1

And longwayoff, if that makes you mad, have a look at the subsidised menu in the house of commons, the mps who voted against free school meals in term time in England enjoy paying a pittance for their meals at work...

OP posts:
Goosefoot · 29/10/2020 22:54

The voting patterns haven't changed all that suddenly, it's a matter of the weight of numbers suddenly became enough to flip results.

There have been some pretty shocking things that have gone on at the local candidate level in some of local constituencies, that's also a factor. Labour managed to piss of a lot of women and make themselves look idiotic.

It all comes down to different ways they have become disengaged from local communities. A political party like the LP can't function that way.

zeb1 · 29/10/2020 23:05

Yes well I can see how Labour became disengaged from their roots. I live nextdoor to a certain figure connected to the Labour Party and if they’re “socialist,” (I can’t even begin to tell you), then I am the cats mother!

Still though .., BJ and MG? Really? Nah, they just wanted to keep the immigrants out.

ssd · 29/10/2020 23:13

@zeb1

Yes well I can see how Labour became disengaged from their roots. I live nextdoor to a certain figure connected to the Labour Party and if they’re “socialist,” (I can’t even begin to tell you), then I am the cats mother!

Still though .., BJ and MG? Really? Nah, they just wanted to keep the immigrants out.

I don't think they wanted to keep the immigrants out. I don't think they even noticed the immigrants, they are too far down the pecking order for them to care about. What they did do is successfully tap into people's fear and prejudices about immigration and use it to get brexit done...
OP posts:
ssd · 29/10/2020 23:15

Because them and their pals will make an awful lot of money through a no deal brexit, same as they are making a fortune through a terrible pandemic...

OP posts:
zeb1 · 29/10/2020 23:27

Oh sorry yes, that what I meant. I don’t think BJ gives a hoot about immigrants. But Cummings knew there were swathes if alienated, disaffected people. Mainly because of Conservative govts since Thatcher, but also some Labour ones who did next to nothing to help. But let’s distract them with the immigration issue! (look there’s Syrians walking across Europe on mass -get that in the news every 5 min outed- did we mention Turkey will be next.., yes, all hoofing it here). Cummings knew he could deflect from the govt failings with this bollocks and get people to blame immigrants. It would be called “Take Back Control.” Yes, no more immigrants, that will do it. Deprived areas are bound to be booming in no time. Sorted!

zeb1 · 29/10/2020 23:28

minutes not outed

ssd · 29/10/2020 23:32

That and the £350 million a week on the side of the buses

Imagine if the NHS DID have that now..

They played a blinder really

OP posts:
Unhomme · 30/10/2020 00:09

OP, I think you deserve the continued decline in the obscurity you're going to get with the SNP.

Elsewyre · 30/10/2020 03:48

@ssd

Suck it up. You voted for them. No one made you.

Everyone is entitled to have a moan, but seriously, WHY WHY WHY did you ever vote tory thinking they'd got your back?!?!

But the people complaining are in the labour held constituencies....
LolalovesLondon · 30/10/2020 04:57

But the people complaining are in the labour held constituencies....

Nobody else is complaining?

Livelovebehappy · 30/10/2020 07:41

I think the attitude of a lot of labourites following Corbyn suspension yesterday from the party explains pretty much the blinkered attitude they adopt - there’s been a full enquiry, the previous labour leader was found to be seriously lacking as regards how he dealt with antisemitism in the party and yet people are tearing up their labour memberships because they still don’t believe the outcome of the enquiry. Tory supporters are well aware of Boris’ shortcomings, but labour supporters are absolutely in denial that their party is so bad it’s pretty much unelectable. Instead of focusing on how labour can be improved to represent an electable opposition party again, they just focus on the Tories and their supporters.

netstaller · 30/10/2020 07:43

LOL at the enormous generalisation there OP. So you've seen a couple on the news moaning (shock!) and now the whole of the north think the same thing in one big homogenous blob...

uggmum · 30/10/2020 08:19

I live in the North and how I voted has nothing to do with it.

It's a total shit show but I doubt labour would have done a better job.

The whole world has currently gone to shit.