I'm sick of people from Northern England who voted tory complaining on the news

[ssd]

Suck it up. You voted for them. No one made you.

Everyone is entitled to have a moan, but seriously, WHY WHY WHY did you ever vote tory thinking they'd got your back?!?!

In my experience it’s young Conservative types who look down on northerners. In fact it was mainly northerners who’d moved South who were most negative about the people and towns they’d left. It was the same at uni.

I see much more from the right. Perhaps because me and mine are not the type of working class northern that Conservatives tend to find convenient, so there's no incentive for them to try any buttering up.

I would rather shit pigeons than vote Tory. I don't rate Keir Starmer much either.

The tory party 'listened'

Lol and the voters fell for the propaganda.

Personally I should be fine from both Brexit and the country having a massive Tory majority. I have a stable job, decent income and savings plus live in a decent area so any downsides should be okay. In some ways I might be better off.

But I always vote Labour because I care about society and it is all interlinked. I like having the safety net of a welfare state that isn't sold off to the lowest bidder, having a majority of MP's who get into politics because they believe in society. I know that long term things like crime are linked to poverty and take a public health approach to such things which is very much a left wing concept. I won't even go into the benefits that being in the EU brings but why anyone would want to leave is beyond me.

If those red wall and areas, the north and whoever want to vote for these charlatans then they have made their bed, if they think that southerners and the 'metropolitan elite' or whatever they want to call them are looking down their noses at them then that's their lookout (they aren't btw). They have chosen to put in power a party that does not believe in a safety net or welfare state, the school dinners thing is just the start, it's only going to go downhill from here, I fear for anyone who might need that kind of support in the future.

@THisbackwithavengeance

You've got it all wrong OP.

Boris and co don't hate working Class Northerners. They have no regard for us. The Tories put themselves first but their policies are not actually spiteful. They see the working classes as worker bees that need some looking after and placating otherwise they won't work effectively and make money for the bosses. We are necessary to the Tories.

Left wing London socialists however can't bear Northern working classes. They actively despise us despite claiming to represent us. You only have to look at all the sneering comments on social media about gammon etc because people had to temerity to complain about the negative impact of large scale EU, mainly East European migration in their communities.

Where you couldn't get a job as the factory recruiting agency was run by a Polish woman who only employed Poles and put the phone down if anyone English rang up, where the already scarce council housing was occupied by Lithuanian families. Not to mention the Romanian pick pocket gangs and the propensity to drink driving and driving without insurance etc from nationals of countries where that is common behaviour.

Southerners have to understand the negative impact of EU migration which was not felt in rich Southern towns where the German doctors and Swiss biochemists live. And yet our concerns were not heard and we were called gammon and racist. So people knew that and voted Tory and for Boris accordingly.

Yes, you're pretty much right. I'm on iPhone so can't address every issue you've raised (as in I can't scroll through what I'm 'quoting') as, of course, some are more valid than others, like in any multi-faceted debate.

However, voting Tory wasn't the answer, really, was it?

You don't just forget your roots, generations of labour voters then lose the plot and vote Tory. I went bananas at my mother when she told me she was going to vote Tory, almost considered locking her in the cupboard on polling day! Bumbling Boris needs to bumble off!

I cant speak for anybody else. But when I cast my vote last year I was not considering how the PM might react to a once in a hundred year pandemic.

Comes down to ideology, just look at the difference between left leaning and right leaning people when thinking about what the fall out might be.

A left leaning person would think how can we help them, what options are there for the state to step in, etc.

Conservatives believe in 'personal responsibility' no matter what. It doesn't matter what circumstances have led to any misfortune but it is your responsibility to deal with it. If you are sacked from a job then it's your own personal responsibility to find one, born into poverty - your fault, get yourself out, etc.... all regardless of circumstances.

It's no surprise really that the Tories won when after the Thatcher and Cameron years people have been blind to this and backed them again just to get out of a trading block they felt xenophobic too.

Oh - I also think there were people who wanted to "get Brexit done" who were NOT Leave voters. But having had the vote the last thing they wanted was to draw it out or have another referendum.

No. There aren't very many of them. And those that exist do so because (in that they recognise the No Deal that is now inevitable), they need the pain to be sharp, but short.

No Remainer seriously wants to 'get Brexit Done', they just want the arse-whopping to be as short as possible.

Dragongirl10 Q:"Maybe you would be better off asking why people who have never ever voted Conservative in their life did so in the last election. I have never voted Conservative in my life but know many people who did so in the last election and to be honest “suck it up” has to be one of the most childish responses I have ever seen.Why don’t you want to consider why traditional Labour areas didn’t feel able to vote Labour in the last election? Why don’t you want to think about what the Labour Party has to do to appeal to these previously die hard Labour areas that voted Conservative ? Sixth form politics of ‘suck it up’ may appeal to The politically illiterate but the fact is that the Labour part failed spectacularly to appeal to vast swathes of the North ( and in fact didn’t even make any attempt to do so). Perhaps the reality is that ‘the North’ has woken up to the reality that no one in Parliament has their back - that is certainly the overwhelming view of people I know."

But- the answer is to vote Tory, seriously? Because that's what so many did. 'No one represents them' , but they vote for a soft Tory, like BoJo, in thrall to the rabid Right who'd genuinely see you in a Workhouse?

Seriously?

@Miljea sneering at the w/c comes from well off southern anfpd noryhern types. I know plenty affluent northern tory voters who

@ItsAlwaysSunnyOnMN

Northernshepherd the op and a number on this thread make the same sneering comments on many threads. Working class and particularly northern working class bashing is very popular pastime among many on the left.

You're not 'being bashed', you're being asked to account as to why a north of England person in an erstwhile downtrodden, in a previously Labour strong-hold; but in a neglected, Thatcher-decimated, unemployment-ravaged', austerity-riven, 'needs-improvement' education, FSM denied area would vote Tory as a path to salvation.

That is the crux of this entire post.

It would be interesting to see what policies people on here do or don't agree with from both Tory and Labour parties. Step away from Boris, Corbyn etc and debate which policies they liked/disliked.

@Miljea spot fucking on.

Guess it's easier to accuse me of all sorts of shit though than actually answer the question of why the fuck they did vote tory?

Au contraire, moaning is one of the few pleasures left and may even unite north and south in mutual grevience. We bloody well need something to get through this winter.

However I reserve the right to raise eyebrows at anyone expressing surprise when the Tories turn the screw on us all -again. They were very explicit about what they are. A Government that has funnelled 700 million to their friends during a pandemic for unfit systems and crappy PPI, but baulks at feeding hungry children is actively evil.

[quote Liquorishlucy]@Miljea sneering at the w/c comes from well off southern anfpd noryhern types. I know plenty affluent northern tory voters who[/quote]
I have not sneered. I have just expressed incredulity as to why, if you were a person in a Thatcher decimated, high unemployment, low skilled, Needs Improvement education system, austerity- decimated area- you might think Boris is Your Man?

I strongly object to the idea that makes me 'sneery'.

Like with Brexit, I'm only asking you to lay out your arguments as to why anyone might think 'Boris' is the answer.

So far, the chief reason stated here is 'because we/they didn't want Corbyn'.

That's the sum of it.

'What choices did we have?' etc.

Me laying bare the -ahem- paucities in that argument does not make me 'sneery'.

Sorry gobbledygook
@Miljea sneering at the w/c comes from well off tory voting southern and northern types, let me reassure you. I know plenty who played blue murder when our local primary school (ofsted excellent) merged with the failing one off the nearby council estate. No solidarity with the working class then.
Fact is years of underinvestment bu our own governments caused the structural inequalities between north and south, not the EU. And the reason many east europeans moved here was because we had serious shortages in certain industries as well as brits not wanting to do backbreaking work picking fruit or working in a poultry factory. Loads of fruit sat rotting this year as labour from abroad dried up, where were the hoards of brits taking back their jobs ?

Yep evil describes them well.

I was listening to Joe Bidens speech today and he was saying how Trump wants to get rid of the affordable health care that Obama brought in. So if Trump wins, millions of Americans won't have any health care. And they won't get the covid vaccine, if it ever comes about.

But of course Trump's base is poorer people who will get monumentally shafted by him. Just like people in traditional labour strongholds in the North of England, people that need help from the state, well they turned to the party who hate state help and gave them a massive majority. And I don't get it. Its nothing to do with being leftie or working class or whatever, I genuinely don't get why they voted tory. If they didn't want Corbyn fair enough but to vote for the most right wing government we've seen for ages, I mean COME ON.

And then going on the news and saying how they didn't expect this government to do what they're doing 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

Appologise I thought you were an appologist for boris, but I still disgree that labour types sneer at folks up here...its more well meaning condescension

All Party "promises" are propaganda, I can't believe anyone is stupid enough to think any party will deliver on all of their promises.

They all lie, that's a given.

Instead of blaming "The North" why not blame the useless politicians on all sides who for the past god knows how long have run this country into the ground? Labour left power with shit loads of debt, so they're not blameless either. Corbyn and his Cronies didn't give a toss about the working class either. Labour knew Corbyn was unpopular but let him run anyway, not exactly a smart move was it? The Tories are dickheads too and always have been but they promised to uphold democracy in moving forward with Brexit, Labour openly admitted that it would dismiss the democratic vote. How could anyone be expected to vote for a party who could dictate it's own will over democracy?

Seriously?

Well said @sally067, my sentiments entirely. It's about the kind of country that we want to live in not how it benefits you personally.
I'm with you all the way @ssd!

I'm actually just gutted Labour aren't stronger. I quite liked Andy Burnham, I'd vote for him. And I like Nicola sturgeon though things are going a bit squewiff up here.

But I couldn't vote for Boris if my life depended on it. Between him, gove Cummings Rees mogg and the rest, a more self serving bunch of utter *, you couldn't find.

@MrsMarrio

You don't just forget your roots, generations of labour voters then lose the plot and vote Tory. I went bananas at my mother when she told me she was going to vote Tory, almost considered locking her in the cupboard on polling day! Bumbling Boris needs to bumble off!

Except if you just keep voting Labour, no matter what they do, you are hardly giving them the message that they are not performing, are you? So long as your vote is locked in, because the LP has given themselves the title of the "caring" party, or because it's your heritage, or whatever, you have no power to influence what they do.

They are showing no signs of getting the message. I suspect Starmer understands the problem, but he's still stuck with a bunch of members who are middle class liberal capitalists who want to be able to feel nice about themselves. If they don't want to respond to what their core voters think, why would they expect to get their votes?

But @Goosefoot what do their core voters think?

Because I don't l know anymore.

I wish the 'promise' of a Brexit vote had been mere 'propaganda'...

Look where that's taken us.

"Labour left power with shit loads of debt, so they're not blameless either."..... as opposed to the debt the Tories have incurred?

Imagine the reaction if Labour had spent like Rishi has?