I'm sick of people from Northern England who voted tory complaining on the news

[ssd]

Suck it up. You voted for them. No one made you.

Everyone is entitled to have a moan, but seriously, WHY WHY WHY did you ever vote tory thinking they'd got your back?!?!

I’m not from the north

I’m not a Tory voter

I voted remain

I am working class

But I have listened and taken note of what people have been saying about politics for years. From the left to the right not just what I agree with or feel more inline with.

I can understand why people voted for Brexit I can understand why the Tories won last year doesn’t mean I support either

I live in London I am well aware of the opportunities differ far too greatly in our country this is the crux of Brexit

With the brainwashing from the tabloids, and the very successful manipulation, we have become a one-party state. Instead of a communist party, we have a so-called conservative party. Not much difference: no hope for another party to be elected, information control, and social control through deprivation. It's just quite ironic that this is sold as democracy

Liquoricelucy Q:"Miljea sneering at the w/c comes from well off tory voting southern and northern types, let me reassure you"

I am not sneering.

I am tired of this accusation.

Asking someone why, given x, and z would you choose that course of action ? - isn't sneering.

Unless you think any challenge is one automatically denigrating your point of view; in which case -do you have confidence in your POV?

If, as has been more or less suggested, I'm some Liberal Southern Softie, you attack my POV, I don't assume myself to be 'sneered' at, just requested to explain my view point.

The term 'sneered at'- implies a sense of victimhood.

I don't regard intelligent debate, from any quarter, to be coming from victims of anything.

Which is why I remain surprised that anyone who has lived through 10 years of Tory dominance in more disadvantaged areas might think Boris is (now) The Man.

@ItsAlwaysSunnyOnMN

I’m not from the north

I’m not a Tory voter

I voted remain

I am working class

But I have listened and taken note of what people have been saying about politics for years. From the left to the right not just what I agree with or feel more inline with.

I can understand why people voted for Brexit I can understand why the Tories won last year doesn’t mean I support either

I live in London I am well aware of the opportunities differ far too greatly in our country this is the crux of Brexit

I disagree. I live in Glasgow, we have more poverty than most and the shortest life expectancy for men in Europe, last time I heard. We overwhelmingly voted to remain in the eu and certainly not voted tory.

So to make this all out like its just a case of we're fed up getting the scraps so we'll vote tory instead is frankly a lot of nonsense.

ItsAlwaysSunny. Q: I understand why people voted for Brexit I can understand why the Tories won last year doesn’t mean I support either

I live in London I am well aware of the opportunities differ far too greatly in our country this is the crux of Brexit".

Bu... bu... but...

I understand why people voted for both, too. The word 'Cummings' is in there.

It wasn't in their own self-interest, was it?

I never said all would vote for Tory

I said I understand why many choose to vote Brexit and in the last election for the Tories

The results in Scotland were very different to England. Possibly driven by SNP wanting another Scottish referendum and Scotland becoming independent from the rest of the UK

@ssd

But *@Goosefoot* what do their core voters think?

Because I don't l know anymore.

Their core voters think that globalism has been bad for them, and the globalist liberal LP keeps telling them it's not true.

That their community structures have been undermined by people who even don't understand how they function, and who despise attachment to place.

That their local political organisations have been usurped by people who know nothing about their local community.

That identity politics are racist, and function as a convenient way to avoid challenging class oppression (see - globalism).

That they aren't going to vote for people who visibly despise them.

For all that people like to talk about the Tories being the party of the rich, the LP is in fact composed largely of middle class people with university educations and that is who vote for them. That should be a big fat tip-off that the interests they are serving are mainly oriented to the university educated middle classes, the ones who can work anywhere, live in major metropolitan areas, and are the main beneficiaries of freedom of capital and freedom of labour.

The fact is there is no party of the workers available for people to vote for at this time - (a fact that's increasinly the case in the democratic west.) The best bet for those people is to ignore ideology, and personality, and concentrate on the realpolitik, and eke out some policies that work for them by being mercenary with their votes from election to election.

Has anyone suggested that he hasn’t had an influence

But once again the issues are not from the last five years they are from years and years of labour and Tory governments people feeling left behind people feeling ignored people desperately wanting a change Many accepting it will be a hard transition but it just might get better because it certainly hadn’t for a long long time

If you’re an activist which is obvious you won’t achieve anything when you’re job is to convert people to your way of thinking but just choose to shout at them and say they’re thick or stupid

You’ve always made me to want to vote Tory because I hate people of your type and just want to tell them to fuck off. Good job!

Almost not always. I realise no one should cut their nose off to spite their face but people like the OP are insufferable and are so oblivious about how much harm they do to their own cause

As I said upthread, my family did not think “Boris was their man“. In fact, it was more of a difficult decision for them because Boris was obviously not a traditional Conservative, and what they wanted was Conservatism. They are hoping that the more Burkean wing of the party are planning on getting rid of Boris before the next election.
Despite patient explanations earlier in the thread, people are still squealing that reasons for the tory swing have not been explained. They have.
Some of the working class areas of the North had been/were being destroyed by progressive social policies. In general, it has been observed that the working classes regard their community as integral to their sense of self. Conversely, the middle classes usually attach their sense of self to their profession. So the middle classes are highly mobile, will move without hesitation if they think an area is “going down hill", or to get into the catchment areas of "outstanding" schools etc.
The working classes were trying to protect their communities. This was the most important thing to them at the election. They are fully aware that Conservative economic policies do not benefit them, but thought Labour social policies would hurt them more.
The feeling I am getting at the moment from back home is that they haven't handled the pandemic well (obviously) and that they would like to see Boris and Cummings get the old heave ho. But they can see Labour doubling down on the policies that lost them the election and they fully intend to remain Tory at the next election.

@MasterGland ... that’s what I was trying to express. You put it better! Many Northerners felt stuck with their lot. They wanted what they felt was better for their families but don’t have the wherewithal to move to the area with excellent ofsted or better services.

I don't think they were thinking about Boris looking out for them. They 'wanted Brexit done' didn't they?

We all know why certain “Northerners” and certain Welsh and certain people from all over the country in general voted Brexit / Tory and it had nothing to do with politics or “feeling left behind” (that’s just an excuse - it’s been going on for decades obviously, so why suddenly an issue now)?

It had everything to do with XENOPHOBIA.

Cummings knew it was out there and he just he just tapped in. His experiment paid off.

So here we are. And no, I don’t think Labour would have done any better either. Obviously people would still be moaning as they are in every country, regardless of who is in power.

But some people always have to moan and when they can’t blame “the immigrants” it will inevitably swing back to the govt.

'It had everything to do with XENOPHOBIA.'

Oh fgs. I voted remain but know people who voted to leave and not one of them is a XENOPHOBIC 🙄. More to do with being independent from the arses in Brussels.

If they didn't want Corbyn fair enough but to vote for the most right wing government we've seen for ages, I mean COME ON
Comments like this is why mumsnet is ridiculed by anyone who matters. Total reality by pass.

I don’t think anyone will deny xenophobia didn’t impact the vote

But again if people have really taken an interest in politics in the last 10-15 years, if people have listened/read opinions from both sides of the political spectrum not just who you agree with you would be well aware of how left behind so many people have felt

I live in London it’s a bubble I don’t have to go far into Kent to be in a area that is depressed that has so little investment (over many many years) where there is so little opportunity this is mirrored all over the country It feels so different to being in London so different than to being in a town/city with a large mc population. A chance for a real change that neither Labour or the Tories made despite their many many promises of course people took it many staying they know life might be harder for some time the promise it might just get better was worth taking as all the promises of life getting better under consecutive governments didn’t happen

For years and years people have been ignored they were not listened to and here we are. Why the liberal left has become so detached from so many working class people (in other parts of Europe and in the states) is baffling at times

Virtually all the white working class people I know who voted Leave, and I am speaking of my own community and even a few family members here, were also pretty racist. Not all of them explicitly said it was for those reasons though, but I am afraid to say that some certainly did.

I don't suppose every white working class person who voted for Brexit did so on this basis, and conversely I have no doubt plenty of Leavers who aren't white working class did so because of racism. It's just somehow less newsworthy when people with money do it.

I don't think we're going to get anywhere useful by pretending this wasn't a factor though, not least because some of them are about to be extremely disappointed when they realise it hasn't stopped immigration and that it's about to get much harder to send asylum seekers to EU countries they were in before coming here. That disappointment is going to have to be managed. Which cannot happen if there is resistance to acknowledging that it exists.

Isn't it delightful how northern bashing has become somewhat of a hobby on MN these days 🙄

Maybe you think we're all so poor and uneducated that we don't have/can't work the internet 🤷🏼‍♀️

Stop referring to the 'north' as one homogeneous group. It's not an episode of game of thrones.

@SueEllenMishke

Isn't it delightful how northern bashing has become somewhat of a hobby on MN these days 🙄

Maybe you think we're all so poor and uneducated that we don't have/can't work the internet 🤷🏼‍♀️

Stop referring to the 'north' as one homogeneous group. It's not an episode of game of thrones.

Um- you haven't RTT, have you?

We've sort of moved on from 'the North isn't one homogenous group' dozens of replies ago.

God knows why people get so defensive about being referred to as “Northern England” or “the North.” How is it any different to being referred to as “the Midlands” or “The South.” What would you like the official definition to be -

“the area extending geographically x degrees - y degrees north of the equator incorporating a wide variety of cities, suburban and rural areas but definitely NOT to be confused with Scotland under any circumstances!”

Or we could just call it “the North” of England like Andy Burnham himself...

There needs to be a national drive to end the elitism in politics and recruit people who can apply strategies and theories that work for the good of the country, not just their own interests and those of their mates.

Freekstar what form will this national drive take?

@Orcus

Virtually all the white working class people I know who voted Leave, and I am speaking of my own community and even a few family members here, were also pretty racist. Not all of them explicitly said it was for those reasons though, but I am afraid to say that some certainly did.

I don't suppose every white working class person who voted for Brexit did so on this basis, and conversely I have no doubt plenty of Leavers who aren't white working class did so because of racism. It's just somehow less newsworthy when people with money do it.

I don't think we're going to get anywhere useful by pretending this wasn't a factor though, not least because some of them are about to be extremely disappointed when they realise it hasn't stopped immigration and that it's about to get much harder to send asylum seekers to EU countries they were in before coming here. That disappointment is going to have to be managed. Which cannot happen if there is resistance to acknowledging that it exists.

What a generalisation. I don't think you can simple say all those who voted leave are racist. That's too simple. Some of them probably are but not all. My DF voted leave and he is not racist. He is very well educated and well read when it comes to economics and politics, when we discussed it he said he genuinely thinks leave will be better, he genuinely thinks it's the best thing for the country. Is that too hard to believe? I can totally understand why people voted to leave, some for the same reason as my DF, some because they are racist or rather were concerned about the level of immigrants coming into the country, some because, yes, the propaganda of 'bad' Europe and more money for the NHS was powerful and a well run campaign, some because they wanted change, fed up with the way things were for them, disillusioned by the current political landscape.

I do find it harder to understand why so many Labour strong holds switched to conservative though. I don't understand why people say it was for change, the conservatives have been in power for years this wasn't going to be a change. I don't understand how they thought they would do anything to make their lives better, clearly they weren't, I don't think they thought BJ was their man either, I can only think they were scared by labours policy and it felt conservative was the lesser of two evils, at least they knew where they stood with conservative, they voted for continuing the same rather than taking a chance into the unknown of what JC was going to do, so against change.

I

@zeb1

God knows why people get so defensive about being referred to as “Northern England” or “the North.” How is it any different to being referred to as “the Midlands” or “The South.” What would you like the official definition to be -

“the area extending geographically x degrees - y degrees north of the equator incorporating a wide variety of cities, suburban and rural areas but definitely NOT to be confused with Scotland under any circumstances!”

Or we could just call it “the North” of England like Andy Burnham himself...

Isn't that what JC stood for?