To think children are no longer allowed to live their own lives?

[gussy123]

The ‘what was wrong with the 70s’ thread made me think of this:

I grew up on a council estate in the early 2000s, and I see a lot of what posters were saying about their 70s childhoods in mine. It was basically get out the house, don’t come back until tea— not that anyone would’ve dreamt of doing anything different. On Saturday morning we had to walk into town to do a big shop with our mums, on Sunday some of our grandmas took us to church. Sometimes we were sent out to town to buy things that were needed then and there. Meals, holidays (if we got one), clothes, etc. were dictated by parents and we just got on with it.

I have a significantly younger sister, and the change in lifestyle is astounding. Everything is based around what she’s doing (clubs and things), her friends are only allowed to play in each other’s houses and gardens, just about everything she and her friends do closely supervised— not one of her or her friends is allowed to walk to school (~10 minute walk) alone.

I think children seem to be treated like a separate species! Something that needs to be coddled and made happy at every moment. I know that from about 6/7 onwards I could not wait to get out and do whatever I liked with my friends. Also, crime has consistently gone down if anything, so why are we more and more scared of letting children out alone? It makes so little sense.

I’m not suggesting we start locking kids out from 8 til 8 every weekend, or to make their lives miserable, but I feel as if they don’t get a minute to be completely free and just live!

It’s terrible we even have to think this way - because there are so many nutters about!

I live not to far from the school,once my kids made their communion they came home themselves.

Once they hit 11 or 12 they where allowed in to town.

They are not allowed roam but they can go to the park and up tot heir friends,

@Goosefoot

**This sort of thing leads to some interesting phenomena. I've seen parents who still feel 13 year olds need babysitters for an evening out - not kids with issues or anything just regular 13 year olds. Or who won't let their 15 year old kids out alone with friends.

These kids will be able to drive at 16, will be potentially off to university at 18 or in some cases 17, living alone or having jobs. Some could be parents even if that's not an ideal it's not at all unique.

These kids are going to have very little chance to gradually work into that responsibility and freedom, or to make mistakes when the stakes are fairly low.

Teachers of older kids have noticed something similar - they get more hand-holding with work up through the teen years, and as a result many are learning how to manage a workload on their own in university or a job. They haven't made all the rookie mistakes and learned from them**

Intestines post. Having read what ages parents would deem acceptable to leave their kids alone after school until parent finishes work at say 5- I’d be surprised if most people would leave a 13 year old on their own, whilst they go out with their OH for a meal and drinks...

I would be shocked if the majority of of parents would be ok with that. I imagine back in the day it was completely normal so it would be interesting to see what people’s views are now.

I get what you’re saying about them independence and to go from nothing to being able to drive and go where they want in navy way is worse than giving them more freedoms when they’re younger

Interesting thread.

DP and I are the same age and grew up in the 70ss / 80s. As a boy, he had a pretty free range childhood, while as a girl I was more strictly monitored (we are both only children). Comparing notes, we often use the phrase "benign neglect" to describe some aspects of our childhood. We were both expected to entertain ourselves alot however, financial constraints and divorce meant that we weren't taken on days out that often.

DP has no children, but I have a now 26 year old DS. I kept a pretty tight rein on him until he was about 13 /14 when we moved away from an area where there was a fair bit of youth disruption as it were, but as he navigated his way through secondary school I had to let him have a bit more freedom as the consequence was relentless bullying for being a "mummy's boy". I know about some of the scrapes he got into and bailed him out of a few, and my blood runs cold, but I had to try and balance my anxiety with the memory of how not being allowed out as a teenager left me with a lack of confidence - when I went to college I was engaging in the sort of behaviour my peers had got out of their systems in their mid-teens.

One thing I wonder is if along with the natural desire to protect your children and give them a good start in life, there is now a far greater fear of official consequences if something happens due to an error of parental judgement? The fear of SS intervention for example? (Not saying that CP / safeguarding is a bad thing, but now most are aware that things like emotional abuse can be taken into account etc.)

It is very interesting to see how each generation approaches parenting, and if DS reproduces I do wonder if he will be as gung ho about his teenage children as he expected me to be.......

@emeraldshamrock you sound like you live in a pretty awful place. Which is why you have these views. What you have just described is bad. We don't have toddlers roaming with pacifiers stuck to their faces. We have kids with freedom, enjoying themselves. It's a close knit estate and everyone knows each other.
I lived in an affluent area where no kids were allowed out (I had my son's friend's parents insist I hold their 10 yr old child's hand to cross a road .... Because they weren't capable!!!)

We have kids with freedom, enjoying themselves. It's a close knit estate and everyone knows each other
I live in a mixed area city centre the majority of parents are great but there are some parents at the extreme end of the spectrum too that don't even look out on their DC from 9 till 9.
I am talking about balance.

I agree to some extent that that might be the reason it’s happening less, but I always hear that almost all CSA happens within the family or family friends.

So your child is out wandering and see's someone they know and trust because they're a friend of the family, that person invites them in for some sweets or whatever...

I’d be surprised if most people would leave a 13 year old on their own, whilst they go out with their OH for a meal and drinks...

In my area and among my friends I'd say it's common to have a local evening out and leave kids at home for a couple of hours once the youngest is at secondary school. As long as they are happy to be left. All kids are different.

Mine walked to/from school on their own sometimes or with friends from Y4. A lot of parents leave it to Y6 but there were no roads to cross from our house and it was a ten minute walk and I felt DDs were sensible enough.

From Y6 they were allowed to go to the park or local shop on their own which would involve crossing roads at a zebra crossing or traffic island.

From Y7 they were allowed to be dropped off (or go on public transport, but it isn't very good locally) at local small town and go round the shops with a friend without an adult.

From Y9 DD1 has been allowed to go into London in the daytime with friends (about 30 minutes on train). I was allowed to go into Manchester wit friends on the train at the same age.

DD1 is now Y11 - not much socialising going on at the moment but would be allowed to go to parties if they were actually permitted!

@Graciebobcat

I’d be surprised if most people would leave a 13 year old on their own, whilst they go out with their OH for a meal and drinks...

In my area and among my friends I'd say it's common to have a local evening out and leave kids at home for a couple of hours once the youngest is at secondary school. As long as they are happy to be left. All kids are different.

Mine walked to/from school on their own sometimes or with friends from Y4. A lot of parents leave it to Y6 but there were no roads to cross from our house and it was a ten minute walk and I felt DDs were sensible enough.

From Y6 they were allowed to go to the park or local shop on their own which would involve crossing roads at a zebra crossing or traffic island.

From Y7 they were allowed to be dropped off (or go on public transport, but it isn't very good locally) at local small town and go round the shops with a friend without an adult.

From Y9 DD1 has been allowed to go into London in the daytime with friends (about 30 minutes on train). I was allowed to go into Manchester wit friends on the train at the same age.

DD1 is now Y11 - not much socialising going on at the moment but would be allowed to go to parties if they were actually permitted!

Really? That’s interesting. I suppose if they’re safe in their house for a few hours and they’re happy. I’d prefer that than them roaming the streets at 8pm!

I think people look back on the past through rose coloured glasses. I dont believe it was all so lovely. I remember some really frightening and unpleasant things happening that I'd like not to happen to my dc - repeated incidents of old men flashing, really awful bullying for some kids, kids hurt in car accidents.

We do live in a place where the dc can play out and im happy they can, but I dont think it is a bad thing at all for families to be more focused on dc rather than leaving them to get on the best they can.

I was also raised in the early 2000s but my childhood sounds closer to your sisters. I was allowed to walk to school only after I turned 11. I wasn't allowed beyond the end of the road until I was 10 and only then if my mum knew where I was going and that I would come home every hour or call her from a mates mums house. I went to horse riding, gymnastics, ballet, flute lessons, swimming, diving... all sorts all week.

I think it just depends on the parents. James Bulger died the year after my sister was born and it had a big impression on my mum.

I should say also DDs also played out on the street/in gardens/were allowed to call for friends and ride round the close on their bikes from about age 6/7. It's a cul de sac so any cars are driving slowly though. Same as where I grew up. I think they have had the same amount of freedom as I did in the 1980s/1990s, if not a bit more sometimes. DD2 spent a lot of last summer making a den on common land in the middle of the street with her friends where they could sit and chat while still being socially distanced and I never did anything that wholesome and storybook-ish!

In my view, it's the culture of Safetyism thas has taken over society. Vide the Covid hysteria.

I felt always aware of stranger danger growing up in the 1980s from the public information films to regular reports of dodgy men hanging about the school in cars and trying to lure kids in with sweets and so on. Then from secondary school age I regularly had grown men shouting sexual comments at me on the way to and from school.

And I grew up in a more built-up area than I live now so the traffic was probably worse most of the time.

Also, back in the 70s/80s if a kid of 6/7 had an accident either at home alone or out and about alone it was just an accident. Now social services would be involved and probably take your kid’s away from you, neighbours would gossip and you would be in the papers for everyone to judge. So people don’t want to take that risk.

@BrieAndChilli

Also, back in the 70s/80s if a kid of 6/7 had an accident either at home alone or out and about alone it was just an accident. Now social services would be involved and probably take your kid’s away from you, neighbours would gossip and you would be in the papers for everyone to judge. So people don’t want to take that risk.

I remember a childhood friend having a scar once from using the kettle. The only thing I thought at the time was that I wasn't allowed to use a kettle myself - I think both families had those that you put on the stove and not the electric ones. We would have been around 7 or 8. Now looking back, I think her parents probably allowed her to use it when she wasn't old enough. I wonder what other people around us thought at the time. They may have disapproved, but not said anything.

"I think the majority of 70 and 80s parents would be mortified if they knew what their children got up to or were subjected to. "

Why? They were children themselves in the 50s and 60s. I'd think they'd consider things like that to be part of life.

"We've always had bad people but more of them exist now."

You're going to have to offer some evidence of that because it sounds like total bs.

Isn't it better that people don't accept what used to happen to children as being part of life now. It's a bit like my MIL accepted being touched up by her boss, as that is what used to happen then (in the 60s and 70s), whereas that is not accepted at all in the workplace now (not saying it doesn't happen but there are mechanisms in place to address it).

I also assume for many parents in those decades they didn't send their children outside for hours at a time so the children could have fun, it was much more so that the children weren't under their feet whilst they spent hours doing work round the house, and so the older children could look after the younger ones.

A relative also tells me of the time in her childhood (50s) where the children played out all the time but were told to avoid going anywhere near a certain house. An odd man lived there and the Church used to send orphans there so he could 'look after them'. Her parents and the rest of the parents in the village just accepted that those children were probably being abused as the children were never allowed out of the house, but just turned a blind eye. I would hope a village wouldn't turn a blind eye now and would get social services involved.

I had the typical 70s childhood you speak of. I wasn't on a council estate but a cheap private estate with a mix of lower middle class and working class families.

There were things that happened that have been mentioned on this thread such as accidents, dodgy men but they still happen today and people are more aware and, dare I say it, paranoid. Our parents drummed into us that we had to do this or that to stay safe. We had more personal responsibility. Where I live now, we don't have that. Kids have things like tap, piano lessons but it IS very middle class and on a busy road.

Going back to my mum's cul de sac, I still see children playing out and shouting CAR like we did before everyone diligently jumps onto the pavement to let it pass. While I was growing up, I did have friends who never played out and went to organised activities, though. They were middle-class, too

Mine are 11 and 16 now. The 11 year old is allowed to knock on friends and go to the park. The 16 year old goes everywhere but the pub now that no one can get served if the look under 25. The difference between the 16 year old me and mine is that she expects me to run around after her with lifts and hand her cash for no reason . My dad did give me lifts and money but it wasn't an expectation. I was happy to walk or get the bus and I was very proactive about getting a job. In short, more self sufficient

@Gwenhwyfar I doubt loads of people dispproved. as it was common in my family and amongst my school friends for children that age to use kettles and start cooking in the 70s and 80s. In fact if you got to 9 and couldn't make a cup of tea your parents were thought of being negligent.

Funny thing was most of us weren't allowed to play out in the street as there was too much traffic. Where I lived in inner London the council spent over a decade from when I was 10 putting in traffic calming measures. In the end it was a mixture of traffic calming measures and parked cars that cut the speed of the cars going down the roads. Luckily we had free play schemes if you were under 11 for half the year and when you were older you could go with your mates to the local parks.

I saw 2 fatal accidents as a young child. One on my own at the bottom of our road. One little boy of about 8 went through a van windowscreen, his bike went under. I was 5 and just stood there in shock for that one, until my mum heard the news on the grapevine 10 minutes later and dragged me away. The ambulance were trying to remove him from the van at that point. He was my friend, Leo. I didn't know the other kid.

Also saw someone go under the ice. That was bad.

I let my children go out once they are old enough to have a sensible discussion about risk and safety. It is better now, because they can phone me. I will get to them.

As for the Internet etc, that is done communally in our house. So we all know what is going on.

Each has to assess the risks of where they live. I can now say that yes, I was neglected. But my siblings still have fond memories of that time. Crazy.
My parents wouldn't ever pick me up, or rescue me. You got yourself in to situations, you got yourself out.

In fact if you got to 9 and couldn't make a cup of tea your parents were thought of being negligent

DD2 first made a cup of tea at age 8 after they talked about it at Brownies, then did it at home. Can't remember what age with DD1. DD2 was very tall for her age though and at 8 was only just tall enough, I felt, to comfortably reach the kettle and be strong enough to steadily pour it. It seemed an unnecessary risk before then TBH.

I grew up in the 90s and most of my peers and I weren’t allowed to roam freely . We played in each other’s houses and gardens only. Our parents always knew where we were. At my school most of us were driven to school and back (or collected in taxis) even at 16. I didn’t go into town with friends without adult supervision until I was 12 and even then was picked up and taken back home by the parents of friends. I was sexually assaulted in broad daylight by a stranger the second time I went into town with friends, again aged 12. We had hobbies that the parents were invested in, and again we were driven to and fro and weekends might revolve around them. We might nip to the corner shop alone for things like milk or bread from 11ish but not after dark and we certainly weren’t kicked out to wander the streets. In fact even in the 90s in my social circle, those sort of parents were quite frowned upon and I can remember the term “neglect” being bandied about regarding children out and about on their own or in packs or whose parents seemed to take little interest in them. My violin tutor used to nearly cry sometimes and say that she would often see “feral children” (awful term) wandering the streets on Sunday mornings in their pyjamas, often kicked out by hungover parents with younger siblings of two or three in tow to buy milk, bread and fags then make their own breakfast and stay out until their parents could bear to look at them.

I didn’t realise that so many children were having such a different experience to my peers and I. I can remember going straight into town from school with my mother and seeing groups of children my age hanging around McDonalds and the shops etc in their uniforms, smoking, swearing, drinking cheap bottles or cans of cider or energy drinks etc and I was shocked that they were allowed to. I also noticed there was a visible difference between how I was treated in the shops (with kindness and respect) and how they were viewed (“little shits”, “their parents should know what they are up to”). It was like the “free range” kids were seen as being on the “wrong side of the tracks”. Sadly it was also the time when a lot of grooming gangs were operating I know now and it was these kids who were targeted. There were two awful deaths of teenage girls the same age as me...murders, with sexual motives, seen as runaways and not investigated in time because they were from “rough” backgrounds or had past social services intervention. Lots of deaths from kids getting hit by busses and cars after school too.

I’ve grown up normal really, with healthy attitudes and I don’t think it was a bad thing that I was protected the way I was. I’d rather that than the alternative which was rife on the sadly more socially deprived area of my town and which led to children and teens often having horrific experiences that they never quite got over. I really don’t think it’s a bad thing to not have your children roam the streets and not know where they are.

I roam around freely in my country side. Woods , walk to the store, go to neighbors homes. Never got hurt.BUT a lot of people did offer us a ride to the store and I did accept their offer, luckily they were harmless. Unfortunately one of my neighbor, a young teen did catch a ride with someone and he ended up being molested and dropped off somewhere else. It was in our local news and everything and really sad.

I had bicycle accidents too , hit my head bad against a tree, but again, I was lucky someone saw me and got my parents help. Having accidents didn’t really taught me much other than fear. I have been afraid to ride a bike since.