To think children are no longer allowed to live their own lives?

[gussy123]

The ‘what was wrong with the 70s’ thread made me think of this:

I grew up on a council estate in the early 2000s, and I see a lot of what posters were saying about their 70s childhoods in mine. It was basically get out the house, don’t come back until tea— not that anyone would’ve dreamt of doing anything different. On Saturday morning we had to walk into town to do a big shop with our mums, on Sunday some of our grandmas took us to church. Sometimes we were sent out to town to buy things that were needed then and there. Meals, holidays (if we got one), clothes, etc. were dictated by parents and we just got on with it.

I have a significantly younger sister, and the change in lifestyle is astounding. Everything is based around what she’s doing (clubs and things), her friends are only allowed to play in each other’s houses and gardens, just about everything she and her friends do closely supervised— not one of her or her friends is allowed to walk to school (~10 minute walk) alone.

I think children seem to be treated like a separate species! Something that needs to be coddled and made happy at every moment. I know that from about 6/7 onwards I could not wait to get out and do whatever I liked with my friends. Also, crime has consistently gone down if anything, so why are we more and more scared of letting children out alone? It makes so little sense.

I’m not suggesting we start locking kids out from 8 til 8 every weekend, or to make their lives miserable, but I feel as if they don’t get a minute to be completely free and just live!

I have a slightly different take on this. I am in my twenties and was raised on a farm. Both my parents, in their 50s, were also raised on farms.

Obviously, compared to their childhoods, I was coddled much more than they were. My dad left school early and was carrying out adult farming tasks from absolutely no age. However, machinery back then was considerably smaller, and much more was done by hand (so presumably, less dangerous?) I don't know. They certainly weren't supervised anywhere near as much as I was, if at all.

When I used to go up to the farm as a kid, I wasn't supervised the entire time, but I had strict instructions on where and what I was allowed to do. I was never allowed up when the slurry tankers were being mixed/spread. I wasn't allowed to walk anywhere on the yard if tractors were coming in and out. I was allowed, however, to spend time in the cattle sheds and feed them silage etc.

Even with that, I look back and shudder at a few of the near misses I had. I nearly flipped the quad over when I was 15 and was flying down the field past the sheep to try and get the gate closed before they went onto the road. The grass was slippy and it went onto two wheels. The scariest few seconds of my life until it went back onto all 4 again.

Similarly, for an art project I had to take photographs of the cows. I wandered into a field with a friesian bull in it with absolutely no concerns. It's only now I realise how stupid that was (the following year his personality changed for the worse and he became incredibly dangerous). I also had a near miss when feeding slightly older calves who, when I was bent down to lift their water bucket, ran straight over the top of me. I easily could have broken a bone or worse.

I have two small children, now, and while I want them to get out onto the farm and experience similar that I did, I will definitely not be leaving them as unsupervised as I was. Unfortunately for them, they simply won't spend enough time up there to learn the ins and outs of it enough for my liking. As a kid I did make mistakes, but ultimately I was very well educated on what not to do. I just don't feel comfortable that my two kids, who are being raised in a town, would have the same level of savvy that I did.

Also when you look at CSE much of that is instigated online, while children on their phones and tablets in their seeming safe home/bedroom with their parents close by.

The ongoing grooming around CSE tends to happen online but the initial contact is often made where young teenagers tend to gather - under 18s clubs, fast food places etc. I know a few areas where I live that my children won’t be allowed to hang out as teenagers because I know too much.

For me it's not so much the increased supervision as a sense that the children are just an extension of their parents rather than people in their own right. The presumption that children will want to do everything with the family or parental chosen 'friends' doing what suits the whole family rather than investigating the world on their own.

I think the current generation will level just as much criticism at their parents as previous ones. Talk to your grandparents about their upbringing.

I grew up in the 80s Subs of a big city but semi rural, had a great time, swimming in the local river, camping and booze, walking miles home late at night because taxis cost too much.
Actually exactly the same life style as my own kids do but we do live much farther out from a big city but still within travel distance.
I understand if you live in an inner city the worry but the real chances of coming into trouble is marginal.
My worry is kids not being prepared to mix with people from all social backgrounds because they have never been exposed to risk and can’t work out danger.
Not all middle class people are nice., not all people claiming benefits are scrounges.
I want my kids to read people by their values and remember it’s an east route to the top if you are born privileged it’s a really hard road to the middle if you are not. Who has to work the hardest?

My sons brought up one 90s, never just went out to play, they went to their friends houses ( one Aspergers), and played in the local area.
Always knew where they were

YANBU. I had one of those very coddled childhoods and it had knock-on effects in terms of my confidence and sense of self-efficacy.

Example: aged 14 or so I was really nervous about having to change buses in the middle of a journey because I'd never done it before. My dad was really dismissive and told me that he'd regularly got the bus to Brighton alone at the age of ten. This made me feel incompetent and childish for being worried.

When I was ten I literally was not allowed to set foot outside my front door by myself. I was told that if I did go out alone, there was a high probability I'd be kidnapped, violently attacked, or hit by a car. In order to keep me safe, my parents made the outside world sound utterly terrifying - and then they struggled to understand why as a teenager I had trouble coping with everyday activities. It was as if they thought that as soon as I reached the age they decided I'd be allowed to do something, I'd magically be able to do it as easily and confidently as they had done at that age (despite the fact that they'd had years of experience by that point!).

I second the recommendation of 'The Coddling of the American Mind.' I count myself lucky that while my social development and independence was curtailed, my intellectual development wasn't, because I read a lot and my parents had no interest in monitoring or censoring what I read.

Most kids who played out on the streets were abused one way or another, which is probably why a lot of them won’t let their own kids out. Not all obviously, but I bet a huge number you had absolutely no idea about!

I wouldn’t let my kids play out on the street

I grew up in the 90s and was always playing out around 10 years old with friends. We'd go down to the river and wade in up to our necks catching fish. It was so dangerous. Down the river would be a big like damn slope which we'd sslide down into the deep water. Our parents knew but weren't bothered. We'd go around on our bikes all day. I rode off a 30 foot bridge on my bike by accident into a shallow stream below, lucky not to have been killed. Parents just laughed

There was a boy a bit older than us who lived nearby. I can't count the number of times he chased us with a knife or a lighter with an aerosol can. And we say these were the good old days!

I worry for my DD. After so many stories like April Jones I would rather protect her than take a chance and regret it for the rest of my life.

@carbhunter

Everything TheMandalorian said. Added to that - the number of people I know from those wonderful free range days childhood days who were sexually abused by neighbours etc is astounding. Not to mention flashers, older kids taking advantage in the park/youth club. I would say more than 50% of the people I know of that age have a story or three to tell about shit that happened to them (which they now brush off and shrug about even when they recognise how fucked up it was). Plenty of benefits to kids having more independence but not sure the risks are worth it.

I’ve been party to so many conversations starting like OP which quickly descend into stories of groping, abduction, flashing and even death. And that’s just what people choose to share. No doubt there are disadvantages to today’s parenting but it certainly wasn’t rosy in the past.

@Redcups64

Most kids who played out on the streets were abused one way or another, which is probably why a lot of them won’t let their own kids out. Not all obviously, but I bet a huge number you had absolutely no idea about!

I wouldn’t let my kids play out on the street

Hi. Just want to follow up on this comment. I am not disagreeing with you (we are entitled to our own opinions) I just wonder what led you to this conclusion. May I ask what age you are....am wondering if this is a generational thing. I am old, and would not share your opinion....just asking....not saying you are wrong....genuinely just wondering. Thx.

I had a typical 80s childhood where I was out from dawn to dusk from around age 8 or 9. My parents had no idea what we got up to, but luckily we never got into trouble . My DCs started going out from 11. It started as trips to the local park and now its catching the bus into town to have lunch with friends. They are both teens now and we live in London. I am very conscious of how sheltered they have been and how the lack of freedom has removed their chances of having to deal with difficult situations so I encourage them to go out. But I am also conscious of all the trouble I could have for into over the years and how little my parents knew about what we were doing.

@Redcups64

Most kids who played out on the streets were abused one way or another, which is probably why a lot of them won’t let their own kids out. Not all obviously, but I bet a huge number you had absolutely no idea about!

I wouldn’t let my kids play out on the street

I assume you have evidence that most children were abused or is it modern hysteria?

[quote gussy123]@TheMandalorian

I can completely see how those contribute so much— but it’s happening less and less, so isn’t it unusual there is so much more concern now?

Also, now there’s phones, so that’s the ideal way to contact parents in any situation. That combined with tracking that some people put on their kids phones is 100x safer, surely?[/quote]
OP the tracking in kids phones is the bit that horrifies me the most. I didn’t have the freedom you had growing up, but the idea that my parents could have tracked me via phone, if I were a child now, is awful.

That’s the main way I think children need to be freer.

The increase in traffic is a big factor here. Residential streets have cars parked back to back now whereas when I grew up in the 80's there was only about a quarter of the st parked with cars. Even if the kids went out to play ball on the street here they would end up having to stand to one side to let a car past every five minutes -it would be a rubbish game! I'm afraid it's traffic and parking that's ruined life for kids round here. They have no where to go anymore.

"I would say more than 50% of the people I know of that age have a story or three to tell about shit that happened to them (which they now brush off and shrug about even when they recognise how fucked up it was)."

Nobody I know has a story of child sex abuse (pre-puberty). At least, not one that has been shared. I know quite a few women who were raped as teenagers or young women so it's not that I never hear about these things.

What I find strange is the parents that leap from mollycoddling mode one minute to being their DCs best mate or the 'cool mum' when they are a teenagers and take a completely hands off approach. It just seems bizarre that at the very point they need parenting and not mollycoddling all bets are off.

@Pikachubaby

It wasn’t ideal really

We used to play chicken, running across the railway line, the last one to cross was the winner We also put coins on the tracks, they were flattened to twice the size by the intercity

The boys would “abduct” they prettiest girl and try to push a stick into her

We stole apples and pears from the farmer, climbing across barbed wire, getting hurt

We were bitten by (the farmer’s) dogs

We prank- called random numbers

We would ring people’s doorbells and run away, including elderly people

Boys would pee through people’s letter boxes or even put lit fireworks through

We stole sweets from the shops

We set fire to lots of things

We hid in the bushes and threw stones at people

We did all kinds of stuff unsupervised.

My mum only knows the stuff that she found out.

It was feral! Not sure it was great

I grew up in the 80s and only did one of those things. I think you obviously got in with the wrong crowd. It's obvious that not all children behaved like that.

I do have a friend who put stones on railway tracks in the 70s. He got caught by the police and taken home.

I played out with my cousins occasionally and we didn't get up to anything other than making fairy dens and stuff. School was fairly rough already, top of council estate. My children also played out from the age of about 8 til 12 when they started going into town.

My children don't have the freedom I did, I was always out with my friends. I don't even let my children walk to school alone. I was exposed to danger, I was run over deliberately when a man sped up and clipped the back of my bike, two men in suits both got out and told me they would drive me home.Thankfully, I pretended I could see my dad up ahead and got back on my bike. I was also flashed at as a kid while sitting in the park with my friends. All of this happened in the 90s, now I have children of my own and remembering those events stops me from giving my children the freedom I had.

I spent my child good hanging round the local council estate in the early 2000s but for me I don’t look back at it as idyllic I was abused in plain sight but why would my mum think I was anywhere else then playing with my friends I was exposed to things that make me recoil in horror now looking at my son freedom does not always equal an idyllic child hood.

"Because of April Jones, because of Jamie Bulger, because of Miller Dowler, etc, etc."

No, I don't believe this. Ian Brady was before the 70s and 80s.

@AcornAutumn

I agree completely, but if a parent was really worried there are so many methods to track a child that it’s hard for anything to happen. I think it’s very unnerving, but I know that lots of people do it.

@Redcups64

I also haven’t heard any stories, and I’m still friends with quite a few people who used to play out in those days.

I had a 70’s childhood. We were out from dawn till dusk. There’s no doubt we had great times but I had seen 3 flashers and been groped by the ice cream man by the time I went to secondary school. The brother of a classmate died falling into a grain hopper, another was seriously injured when a huge iron gate fell on him and one fell through a barn roof causing life changing injuries. Not to mention the trouble we caused knocking on doors etc. My Mum had no idea what we were up to.
My children have had a much more sheltered life growing up and I’m sure they have missed out in some ways but better that than the alternative.

I am from Germany and I do think children are too much wrapped in cotton wool here.

I grew up walking to/from school form 7 years onwards, most children nowadays do so unless their parents drop them off on the way to work. We cycled always and everywhere but we have dedicated cycle lanes on the pavements so a lot safer than any road here in the UK.

I went to clubs and sports on my own by bike as my mum doesn't drive and my dad worked, so no parental taxi.

We were looked at as if we had two heads when we said that DD walked to Brownies and gymnastics on her own as it was too difficult to park and walk her inside. We let her on her own into town by bus and just equipped her with a phone (more because there are hardly any phone boxes left) in case there are problems. She is on her own at home since she is 10, started small and worked up to 2-3 hours after school the odd day.

They can only be independent if you teach them how to and learn to trust them, they need to learn it like any other skill and the skills evolve over time.

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