Family and money - help!

[notdawn]

I will try and keep this as brief as possible - but really would like some candid advice.

Towards the end of last year my sister and her now ex husband wanted to put their house on the market. Before they did my husband offered them full asking of the agents valuation. In all honesty he probably slightly overpaid.

My husband is a property developer and even when they were together my husband made it clear that if they ever wanted to sell to give us first refusal. We own the house next door (we don't live there) and with the land there was always going be a fairly decent opportunity to develop.

Anyway as it was going through my sister started making comments about how much money we would be making from the deal. The truth is she had and has no idea how much money we will or wont make as she has no idea about building costs, planning costs, marketing costs etc - and I just put it down to her going through a divorce.

Anyway the build was on hold for a couple of months - but the flats where our houses once were will be going on the market Monday and she has been quite vocal about how much money we will make and how we couldn't have done it without her.

AIBU - I mean she wanted to sell her house and we gave her asking price?

We are very close, our kids are close, I am not sure why she is being like this. I suggested to my husband possibly a smallish payment once they are sold - but he is saying absolutely no way.

Thoughts?

[quote baller20]@Cadent this is not your thread, my posts are directed to the OP & I'm still reading through, obviously I missed that bit.

Either way I certainly don't care what you think & the OP can ignore me if she likes. Why don't you take some of your own advice & find some of those adults you were talking about?
[/quote]
You’re still reading reading through but feel able to make asinine comments like OP would keep an inheritance rather share with a sibling and that she hasn’t told her sister what she expects to make because she’s not comfortable with her actions, when she hasn’t done anything wrong.

Firstly, OP owns already the house next door, if you’re selling your house it would be a really shitty thing not to offer your sister who’s husband is a property developer and next door neighbour first refusal. Why are you assuming the sister has no agency and couldn’t have told her ex that actually she doesn’t want to sell the house to her sister?

OP isnotresponsible for her sister’s divorce!

Well that's just it...you've said the sister would be "shitty" not to sell to OP, so you can't then turn around and claim there's no pressure and the sister was making the choice in a vacuum. It isn't a truly straightforward financial transaction, because family is involved and that brings expectations.

Nobody said OP is responsible for the divorce but I do think she may be dismissing its effects. If so, that's going to hurt coming from your own sister even if she did give you a lot of money.

But Sheba equally maybe OP felt pressure to offer her sister so much more for the house than it’s worth?

The sister was desperate to sell to the OP 3 years ago and keen to sell this time round too. She will have checked what other houses are going for and will know she’s getting a very good deal.

OP also has an attachment to those houses. There is no reason for her sister and exBil not to sell to her, but in any case, it was always an option for them not to, just as OP didn’t have to offer so much than the value of the house.

Developing is always a gamble and you will have to make a large investment in the hope of making a profit. If you don't make a profit perhaps you should suggest she gives you a refund.....

@baller20 and @Cadent, get a room.

[quote baller20]@notdawn just saw your update post after the chat. Maybe she wanted you to offer re the development, hopefully time will heal but I do think you need to let go of the "doing her a favour" view. [/quote]
I don’t think I “done her a favour”

We’ve always wanted the house when they were ready to sell - but we never wanted it like this. I would much rather she stayed married.

But she didn’t, that was beyond my control, and we paid more than we should to make sure we got it. There were no favours.

@BertieBloopsMum 🤣🤣 We can't because @Cadent will have to bring along her mum(snet) to hold her hand. You know what they say, 3's a crowd!

I don’t understand why anybody thinks that you’re in the wrong and why your sister should get anything from your sale. She sold a house as I’m sure all of us have done. How many people here have received a cut of old houses that have been sold on for a profit. I’m going to say none. The sister is only aware of the developments because she knows the people that brought her house.

@notdawn you just keeping mentioning the money & how you overpaid so to me it looks like in your eyes there should be no issue. Anyway we are going around in circles but I hope things are resolved.

[quote baller20]**@BertieBloopsMum* 🤣🤣 We can't because @Cadent* will have to bring along her mum(snet) to hold her hand. You know what they say, 3's a crowd! [/quote]
Is that your 20th crying-laughing emoji Baller? Sure sign that someone’s ‘fumming’.

Christ OP you're getting a hard time from a few posters here.
You've done nothing wrong yet it's understandable that your sister is focussing on this 'outcome' after everything that's happened for her.
It sounds positive and hopefully your relationship will continue to improve!

You may not agree with them, but you can't seriously think there's no legitimate alternative viewpoint to OP's.

I think exactly that.

I do think you need to let go of the "doing her a favour" view.

It may not have been a selfless act, but WAS win-win financially. No one else was going to pay that amount.

@Cadent

But Sheba equally maybe OP felt pressure to offer her sister so much more for the house than it’s worth?

The sister was desperate to sell to the OP 3 years ago and keen to sell this time round too. She will have checked what other houses are going for and will know she’s getting a very good deal.

OP also has an attachment to those houses. There is no reason for her sister and exBil not to sell to her, but in any case, it was always an option for them not to, just as OP didn’t have to offer so much than the value of the house.

OP wants the house enough to pay a lot for it. She's expecting to profit. Maybe not as much as the sister thought, and there is risk, but ultimately she expects to leave this deal better off. That's the point. She says they've wanted the house for years. If you think OP was "pressured" to offer a lot of money, how can you think sister couldn't have been under any pressure to accept, especially since you yourself said it would have been "shitty" if she hadn't offered first refusal?

OP has made it clear throughout that this is very much business for her. What's not clear is that she truly appreciates it's a bit more complex for the sister. I don't think she's done wrong by her sister, but it does read as if she doesn't really appreciate the emotion involved and it's hard to believe anyone could be truly blindsided by the sister being upset.

It's a very obvious pitfall of doing business with family. There's a reason a lot of people don't go there, even and especially if large sums are involved.

I think exactly that.

Right. Well. If you have read the thread and seriously see nothing but envy and no validity in any of the counter-posts about the benefits of being able to be dispassionate in business and selling, I guess I won't be able to put it in any clearer terms. So maybe it's best you just accept that many people don't do business with friends and family because it has the potential to get very messy, for reasons that cannot be explained to you.

But she didn’t, that was beyond my control, and we paid more than we should to make sure we got it. There were no favours.

Maybe she did you one? There it is: to make sure. To try to stop sis from selling elsewhere. Because let's be honest, it did actually cost her something to sell her house to you in these circumstances. We know it did, because she was unhappy about it! Which is why I wonder just how truly free a choice it was. Several people have said they'd think less of her if she hadn't given you first refusal, and can you honestly say you wouldn't have as well?

I know you gave her a lot of money and I'm sure she does too. But I just don't believe anyone could honestly fail to understand why she still might be upset about selling to you in these circumstances.

You sound like a bit of a nightmare, convinced you did her a favour by leaping in and grabbing a development opportunity that you and your husband had clearly had your eye on for years. Well done you for having enough money to capitalise on it [slow handclap].

This doesn’t even make sense. The OP’s sister could not have taken advantage of the development opportunity - it was only an opportunity because the OP already owned the adjoining site. The OP’s sister made the maximum possible amount from it.

If the OP’s sister is only thinking about this from an emotional point of view, why does she keep banging on about how much money the OP and her husband may make? As you say, the OP and her husband have been interested in the site for a decade. Has the sister’s marriage been in trouble for all that time? She could have offered to sell - potentially at an inflated price - or suggest they join forces in a development project at any time. She didn’t - yet suddenly now she’s angry about how much the OP could make.

So maybe it's best you just accept that many people don't do business with friends and family because it has the potential to get very messy, for reasons that cannot be explained to you.

You mean reasons I don’t agree with.

You owe her nothing.
She got her asking price, thats it, business with her done.

You need to remove the fact she's your sister from the equation, if the previous homeowners did this you'd tell them where to go.

Business mind on. Ignore any further comments.

She's jealous. She got asking price for it and a quick sale. She did fine out of the deal. You invested, you took a risk, when it works that comes with reward.

Just tell her to stop talking about your finances as it makes you uncomfortable. I reckon she's hinting at getting some of your profit

Tbf this is subjective. My parents downsized a few yrs ago & their house went for over asking because 2 buyers wanted it. One of the buyers was a developer who wanted to turn it into flats, my parents sold it to the family who were interested for less than the highest offer but still 70k above asking price. They wanted it to be a family home.

That doesn’t make market value subjective.

The choice to sell for £70k less was obviously one with which your parents were comfortable, but the vast majority of people can’t afford that kind of choice. There would also be nothing to stop the family buyers selling on for a huge profit if the same developer came back a year later.

So maybe it's best you just accept that many people don't do business with friends and family because it has the potential to get very messy, for reasons that cannot be explained to you.

Sheba, you’re talking as if telling us that doing business with family being a bad idea is a novel concept and that you need to explain this. It’s not, the concept has been around for thousands of years. No one on the thread has argued that you should do business with friends and family. But this was a financial win-win for both, as StillCoughing says, and yes, it’s the finances the sister is focused on, not losing the house.

@Cadent

So maybe it's best you just accept that many people don't do business with friends and family because it has the potential to get very messy, for reasons that cannot be explained to you.

Sheba, you’re talking as if telling us that doing business with family being a bad idea is a novel concept and that you need to explain this. It’s not, the concept has been around for thousands of years. No one on the thread has argued that you should do business with friends and family. But this was a financial win-win for both, as StillCoughing says, and yes, it’s the finances the sister is focused on, not losing the house.

But apparently it is a novel concept, because so many people on here apparently can't understand why sis might be upset! A couple of posters have said that the only reason anyone could see the sister's point of view is that they must be jealous of the OP's wealth - literally no other reason for being able to understand why a woman might be hurt at seeing her sister profit from her divorce and developing her former family home.

The entire point is that the finances are NOT the only thing. If they were, sis wouldn't be upset.

I know the concept isn't difficult or new, but that's precisely why it's weird that so many people can't at least follow the logic or accept there's a reason beyond random internet envy, even if they do ultimately side with the OP!

There was a brilliant post earlier, which may have been swallowed up now (I hold my hands up to being part of the problem) in which the poster had seen a lot of legal family battles over money and said that they always claimed it was only about the cash and "being fair"...and it was in fact always about something else and if they just took the money out of it, they could probably have resolved it without courts and legal fees and feuding. The money just made it look objective.

I can absolutely believe that, which is why I'm wondering if sis is really upset because she feels, rightly or wrongly, that OP doesn't take the pain of her divorce seriously and doesn't really accept what it costs her to see her sister profiting from it. I could of course be completely wrong. It would just explain a lot, including the way OP seems to view the whole situation.