Family and money - help!

[notdawn]

I will try and keep this as brief as possible - but really would like some candid advice.

Towards the end of last year my sister and her now ex husband wanted to put their house on the market. Before they did my husband offered them full asking of the agents valuation. In all honesty he probably slightly overpaid.

My husband is a property developer and even when they were together my husband made it clear that if they ever wanted to sell to give us first refusal. We own the house next door (we don't live there) and with the land there was always going be a fairly decent opportunity to develop.

Anyway as it was going through my sister started making comments about how much money we would be making from the deal. The truth is she had and has no idea how much money we will or wont make as she has no idea about building costs, planning costs, marketing costs etc - and I just put it down to her going through a divorce.

Anyway the build was on hold for a couple of months - but the flats where our houses once were will be going on the market Monday and she has been quite vocal about how much money we will make and how we couldn't have done it without her.

AIBU - I mean she wanted to sell her house and we gave her asking price?

We are very close, our kids are close, I am not sure why she is being like this. I suggested to my husband possibly a smallish payment once they are sold - but he is saying absolutely no way.

Thoughts?

To be clear @bluegrass I don’t think I’ve done a good deed or anything - I’m not looking for a medal.

It was a rubbish situation for her having to sell her family home. However - it was nevertheless a situation that was reality no matter how much we all didn’t want it to be.

We ended up getting a property we wanted for a while and they ended up getting over market value, no agents fees and a quick sale. I would have much rather she stayed married in the family home - but in my mind we both done as well as can be.

@Omeara

You didn’t pay over the odds. You paid what it was worth to you. You probably would have paid more if you were asked as the plot was more valuable to you than anyone else.

We paid over market value.

anyone still thinking this is just about the money and who got a good deal (which is what the OP seems to think it is about) is lacking the emotional intelligence they were born with

Agree.

I’ve spent time time in court rooms with families who have torn themselves apart in litigation. If you asked them what it was about they would always tell you it was just about money, and all about what was “fair”.

The more time you spent with them though the more you realised it wasn’t about money at all. Money was just a symbol, a convenient thing to blame as it made everything seem objective.

The family disputes were really all about emotions - grievances, slights (perceived or otherwise). If the people involved could just ignore the money and actually listen to each other a lot of those disputes would have had a good chance of getting resolved, but they couldn’t do it - they usually dug in, and just talked about what was “fair” in their mind and who should get what sum.

To be honest I see you in those disputes OP. Don’t think about the money, listen to the emotion and the pain and focus on that. That’s assuming you want to keep your relationship with your sister - which I think you probably do.

Good luck with it all.

We paid over market value.

Tbf this is subjective. My parents downsized a few yrs ago & their house went for over asking because 2 buyers wanted it. One of the buyers was a developer who wanted to turn it into flats, my parents sold it to the family who were interested for less than the highest offer but still 70k above asking price. They wanted it to be a family home.

I completely agree @Bluegrass. This is how money (or the actions behind it) tear families apart.

Of course I understand it’s about more than money @bluegrass

But honestly do you think it would have been nicer to let her get 100-150k less than we paid?

🙄

One of my very good friends inherited 2 properties off her parents (about 500k each). Her brother wasn't left anything because he disappointed his parents with his career choice (didn't want to be a doctor). The first thing my friend did was legally transfer one to her brother. It's exactly what I would have done.

I agree @baller - but that’s not a comparable situation.

she and ex got the full asking price, and more importantly if they were spitting up, a speedy sale.
She is being unreasonable - remind her of the facts next time she pipes up.

Yanbu and I wouldn't indicate that you have been by giving her any more money - where will it end? Oh you've bought a new car, you wouldn't be able to without my sale, etc etc. At some point the line is going to be drawn.

I would say to her, you keep bringing this up and I'm sorry you seem to be struggling but I really
Hope we can clear the air and move on. a) our plan was never a secret b) you got asking and a no chain sale and c) we don't make the difference between x and y, we have invested significant amounts of money in to the house as a business move so the different in purchase and sale price is not remotely accurate (this is common sense surely!).
I wouldn't give her figures of your costs, it's none of her business now.

Be sympathetic as she's obviously envious but you haven't done anything wrong and her snarky comments are not helpful.

If your sister and her shrewd ex husband had been worried about you "profiting" from the sale they should have insisted on an overage clause.
From a business point of view - your sister's old house was worth more to you than an off the street buyer and that is why you paid more. If your sister/ her ex wanted a further slice of the pie they needed to have spoken up before.

However, it isn't just business where family is concerned and I can see why she is upset - more the divorce and family home aspect I would imagine.

Hopefully it doesn't sour your relationship longterm and steer well clear of any business with her in the future.

@notdawn

Of course I understand it’s about more than money *@bluegrass*

But honestly do you think it would have been nicer to let her get 100-150k less than we paid?

Do you understand that? You've paid it some lip service but your whole thread is all about how unreasonable she's being because so much money.

She paid an emotional price for this, and to her it ceased to be a purely financial transaction once you had asked for it, however many years ago. She might now be thinking market price would have been worth it in order to have been able to be more dispassionate about it.

Surely nobody on this thread really doesn't understand why the sister might be upset that her family is very likely to profit from her divorce and develop her former family home, especially if she knew they had wanted the property for years?

As I said in my first comment, you haven't done anything "wrong", but it was always risky doing business with a sibling and you really shouldn't pretend to be totally blindsided by this as if the money is the only thing that affects her feelings about it. Even the fact that you were in a position to pay so much when she was probably facing a less certain financial future may have got her back up a bit. It's harder to refuse a sibling than a total stranger, especially when you can't pretend it's because you want to be businesslike because the offer is so high that it wouldn't make business sense to refuse it. If she had refused you, would you have been pissed off?

I didn't say it was but I would have assumed you would have kept both as it's what the parents wanted.

I would never have bought my siblings house that she had to sell to turn a profit. it's inevitable that this would happen surely?

You obviously believe that you have been generous to your sister and that she should be grateful that you purchased the house for more than she would have got otherwise.

You are very fixated on the financial aspects, pointing out how great her deal was and how little you will make on the deal. The reality is no doubt that you will make a significant financial gain off the back of her divorce and demolish her family home in the process.

Surely you can understand why that may be hard for her to witness?

How much profit will you make from selling the flats?

You say you know it’s not about money but the first thing you reach for in your response is the money.

I’m comfortably off. 150k is still a great deal of money to me, but it’s not life changing by any means. Would £150k mean anything at all to me when weighed up against my relationship with my sister? Nope. It’s a meaningless sum compared to that, just a few extra years of a mortgage.

Stop thinking about it.

@notdawn

Perhaps I am being harsh - but I don't think this is a case of mixing family and business. We aren't in business with her - when we brought the house it became ours.

You're being pretty pedantic here. Your business bought her house, so that was mixing family and business.

Still, it's done now. Not sure what to advise really, but unfortunately this situation is only going to get worse as her resentment grows.

@baller20

I didn't say it was but I would have assumed you would have kept both as it's what the parents wanted.

I would never have bought my siblings house that she had to sell to turn a profit. it's inevitable that this would happen surely?

Of course I wouldn’t have kept both in that situation.

So what you are essentially saying is that I should have let her sell it for less and pay 20k in agents fees.

you need to stop with the narrative that you've done her a favour, that's if you want a relationship with her...

@baller20

One of my very good friends inherited 2 properties off her parents (about 500k each). Her brother wasn't left anything because he disappointed his parents with his career choice (didn't want to be a doctor). The first thing my friend did was legally transfer one to her brother. It's exactly what I would have done.

Have a pat on the back 🙄

@Cadent have a kick up the ass 😘

@Bluegrass

You say you know it’s not about money but the first thing you reach for in your response is the money.

I’m comfortably off. 150k is still a great deal of money to me, but it’s not life changing by any means. Would £150k mean anything at all to me when weighed up against my relationship with my sister? Nope. It’s a meaningless sum compared to that, just a few extra years of a mortgage.

Stop thinking about it.

How can OP stop thinking about it when it’s her sister who keeps bringing it up?!

The way people are going for OP here I can only surmise it’s jealousy.

@baller20

How much profit will you make from selling the flats?

Hard to say at this point.