To think that Trump is not going to get re-elected?

[Anon778833]

There are still a few fringe types who think he’s going to get a landslide victory.

Personally I find this unlikely.

Any MNers from across the pond have a view more informed than myself?

They can and do change in an instant as aggregate demand changes

They also change based on announcements from governments and world events.

If you have a line which has been generally increasing over a period of years, absent any world event or government interference, it will continue to rise.

Trump didn't mention the Proud Boys by name in the debate
Trump asked who Wallace and Biden were talking about. He pretended not to know anything about any white supremacists.

Apologies, he actually said "you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides." when talking about a white supremacist group of protesters

You dropped this part: I'm not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be condemned totally –

Apology accepted

This is an entire group of individuals who see the President as leading and furthering their cause with his words, his policies his actions. If you can't see how that is different, you aren't paying proper attention

Richard Spenser is probably the most prominent white nationalist, so kind of influential in that way.

Sure, because there are large numbers of black people who are white supremacists

Well, that’s quite an assertion.

Or maybe you’re just wrong on this one. Black people can, you know, have diverse views and it doesn’t make them white supremacists 🙄

Anyone who puts BLM in the same category as PB needs to have a word with themselves

BLM have been recorded harassing people just having dinner or driving to work. People should feel able to go about their businesses unmolested by these groups and I’m really tired of it, as I’m sure many others are as well.

What about the 17 year old Trump supporter who believed he had been called to arms and shot protesters?

If you're referring to Kyle Rittenhouse then you obviously missed the news that his legal team plan to sue the Biden campaign for defamation for including his image in one of their campaign videos about white supremacists. There is no evidence that he was responding to "a call to arms"or that he is a Trump supporter but if you are interested there is plenty of video footage of what happened that night, I think it was the Washington Post who did a frame by frame analysis. The shooting of Joseph Rosenbaum isn't clearly visible but it the other two shootings it's very obvious Kyle Rittenhouse was defending himself.

Trump asked who Wallace and Biden were talking about.

Hardly unreasonable to ask for clarification about exactly who you're being asked to condemn.

@user1471565182

Id put a bet on Biden winning but far from a sure thing.

This

I think it will be Biden but I wouldn’t stake my house on it. I was wrong in 2016 and about Brexit!

@FOJN

What about the 17 year old Trump supporter who believed he had been called to arms and shot protesters?

If you're referring to Kyle Rittenhouse then you obviously missed the news that his legal team plan to sue the Biden campaign for defamation for including his image in one of their campaign videos about white supremacists. There is no evidence that he was responding to "a call to arms"or that he is a Trump supporter but if you are interested there is plenty of video footage of what happened that night, I think it was the Washington Post who did a frame by frame analysis. The shooting of Joseph Rosenbaum isn't clearly visible but it the other two shootings it's very obvious Kyle Rittenhouse was defending himself.

Add to that the fact that Kyle is Hispanic and he was asked by local businesses to help protect them and he was also supplying First Aid support, Frame by frame video. m.youtube.com/watch?v=OPi0MNVqMbk

@FOJN

Trump was quite happy to encourage the Proud Boys. But then they’re the good kind of violent thugs, I guess

I'm no fan of Trump but I'm baffled by statements like this. Trump didn't mention the Proud Boys by name in the debate, Biden did. A quick google would also prove to anyone remotely interested in truth or accuracy that the Proud Boys stand for many things I would strongly disagree with and they may keep questionable friends but they are not white supremacists. A quick Google would also show Chris Wallace asking Trump exactly the same question in one of the 2016 debates and being given a full answer. Trump has denounced white supremacists many times over but it doesn't seem enough to satisfy the main stream media. There's also plenty of footage which evidences Biden's racism but that seems to get less air time. FWIW I suspect they're both a bit "unintentionally" racist in the way that only wealthy, powerful white men can be.

8 minutes of Trump condescending racism. The MSM really has a lot to answer for. m.youtube.com/watch?v=9JmOSsv-KSg

• condemning racism

@MintyMabel

That's not how financial markets work. Stock prices are determined by supply and demand, which is driven by expectations for future earnings and macroeconomic conditions. They can and do change in an instant as aggregate demand changes. The stock market is in no way a perpetual motion machine.

That is exactly how financial markets work. Otherwise there wouldn't be the sheer number of analyses about market performance over the last 100 years. The market is a long term investment and should always be viewed through a long lense. You never make a financial decision based on what will happen tomorrow.

So which is it? Has the US stock market been riding an unstoppable Obama wave for the last four years or has it been reacting to economic conditions under Trump?

The MSM really has a lot to answer for.

I couldn't agree more. I'm in the UK so I don't have a dog in the fight. I've spent the last 4 years trying to ignore Trump, he's so unstatesman like I cringe whenever I see him speak, however the rioting and violence (peaceful protests my arse/ass) caught my attention and I've been doing quite a bit of reading since and I'm amazed at the bullshit I see in the US news headlines which doesn't stand up to scrutiny if you can be bothered to do a bit of digging. It's left me questioning whether any news can be trusted and convinced me TDS is a thing. I think he's an arsehole but that being said it shouldn't be necessary to selectively edit everything he does or says to make him look bad surely he'd do that for himself if left to his own devices.

@FOJN

The MSM really has a lot to answer for.

I couldn't agree more. I'm in the UK so I don't have a dog in the fight. I've spent the last 4 years trying to ignore Trump, he's so unstatesman like I cringe whenever I see him speak, however the rioting and violence (peaceful protests my arse/ass) caught my attention and I've been doing quite a bit of reading since and I'm amazed at the bullshit I see in the US news headlines which doesn't stand up to scrutiny if you can be bothered to do a bit of digging. It's left me questioning whether any news can be trusted and convinced me TDS is a thing. I think he's an arsehole but that being said it shouldn't be necessary to selectively edit everything he does or says to make him look bad surely he'd do that for himself if left to his own devices.

It's the deliberate disinformation I can't stand and the playing to people's emotions. They rely on the fact that most of their readers/viewers will not research. TDS is a mental health condition especially easy to manipulate and I worry for especially young people's mental health. I used to think facts were left out accidentally by the MSM but after the riots I see it is false framing/propaganda. Ironically if they had just left Trump alone, he would have blundered naturally. By continually calling him a Nazi and other extremes, his supporters feel attacked and double down. Other people when they research feel lied to and gravitate towards Trump.

It's the deliberate disinformation I can't stand and the playing to people's emotions.

From the Washington Post in the last few days,

"We must treat the Hunter Biden leaks as if they are a foreign intelligence operation even if they probably aren't"

They actually tell readers they're making stuff up and still people behave as if they can be trusted!

Ironically if they had just left Trump alone, he would have blundered naturally.

Absolutely, I'm definitely left wondering if he's as bad as the media make him out be when they have to make so much stuff up to smear him. After doing some digging I can see why Trump appeals to some voters; the refusal of the political establishment to let him in no doubt chimes with their own sense of being left behind.

I'd love to think you'll be right Op, but you only have to look at the comments made by those Trump supporters in this thread salivating at the chance to discredit the Dems and anyone else who questions his actions to realise that, nah, America's gonna get **ed again.

There really are plenty of Americans dumb enough to fall for his shtick yet again.

I'm thinking of all of you in America and crossing my fingers for you that Biden wins the presidency. I can't imagine the horror of living under the tyranny of that lunatic orange man for the last 4 years. Even if Biden looks physically frailer then he is still a million miles better than that vile monster you have in office at the moment.

I can't believe this has descended into a conversation about whether or not Donald Trump encourages white supremacy. There are some arguments here being made in very bad faith. The entire point of dogwhistles are that you can pretend not to hear them.

Do you know how you disavow white supremacy? When Richard Spencer made the claim about Biden, this was the immediate response from the campaign: "When Joe Biden says we are in a battle for the soul of our nation against vile forces of hate who have come crawling out from under rocks, you are the epitome of what he means. What you stand for is absolutely repugnant. Your support is 10,000% percent unwelcome here." That is disavowal. Donald Trump does not do that. He pretends, instead, not to know about it.

Here's the thing: this isn't a joke. I've just finished Culture Warlords, and while it has its faults, the story it tells is horrifying. This isn't a fun debate; it's incredibly serious.

Back to the actual matter at hand: I have concerns about vote counts based on Kavanaugh's writings yesterday and Amy Coney Barrett's swearing in last night. That's the current nightmare keeping me up. If the election is like last time, it could invalidate tens of thousands of votes in swing statesand it's also a bit esoteric for a good scandal. I suppose the only way around it is a landslide. I wish I could hide until the electionit's all a bit too much!

There really are plenty of Americans dumb enough to fall for his shtick yet again.

Yes, sadly. Just as in the UK there are plenty of Brits dumb enough to fall for Brexit - or some other dire prospect.
One thing we can be sure of: people never fail to disappoint.

Do you know how you disavow white supremacy? When Richard Spencer made the claim about Biden, this was the immediate response from the campaign: "When Joe Biden says we are in a battle for the soul of our nation against vile forces of hate who have come crawling out from under rocks, you are the epitome of what he means. What you stand for is absolutely repugnant. Your support is 10,000% percent unwelcome here." That is disavowal. Donald Trump does not do that. He pretends, instead, not to know about it

Someone posted an eight-minute video of Trump denouncing white supremacy, but sure, do go on about ‘dog whistles’ (why do you hear them and I don’t?).

Talk about bad-faith arguments 🙄

I don't know why you don't hear them.

Yeah but here’s your logic:

President says stuff that is seemingly not racist but racists will pick up on it and somehow get the ‘real message’

Normal people don’t hear it, so assume all is fine.

You are hearing it, though? So it’s not a dog whistle then, if you can understand what he ‘really’ means ....

The whole thing seems pretty implausible to me

It ain't over till it's over.

ouuuuuuuuuf. Willy Hills been spying on me

Joe Biden too left wing ffs. Do people really think our western systems of government are working when people spout this shit and on another thread 'boris is a socialist', and can then go out to vote with about the same political power and decision making as somebody like Andrew Neil for example?

@BelleHathor

* condemning racism

God, that video is just awful.

You are hearing it, though? So it’s not a dog whistle then, if you can understand what he ‘really’ means ...

My take on dog-whistles is that everyone is supposed to know what it means, but by couching it in ambiguous, you can claim that the real intent of a dog-whistle was not racist.

It's a bit like the "I'm not racist, but ..." that we often see. Donald Trump will at times say "I condemn the KKK", but then will say there are fine people on all sides, or he will hint at destroying the suburbs through bringing in "low-income families". Everyone knows what is meant.