MIL - WTF do we do?

[Pregernaught]

I posted before about MIL buying a next to me crib for her house and passing on questionable vintage baby advice. I thought I’d nipped it in the bud, she’s been ok for a few weeks but last night we had another issue and I’m not sure whether to start winding down contact with her or try one more time to put my foot down?

I’m now 16 weeks, MIL has been buying bits of clothes etc which is totally fine, I’ve just asked that she doesn’t bring them to my house until I’m 28 weeks or more (I’ve had miscarriages, I’m superstitious etc). MIL pulled a face at this but whatever, I asked her not to buy things early on but she went ahead so her choices, not mine.

Anyway, I had a bit of bleeding last week (nothing serious, cervical irritation it turned out) so I went to see the midwife who sent me for a quick scan just to check baby was ok and all is well. DH was on the phone to MIL when I got back from the hospital and had his ‘wtf’ face on, so I asked him to put her on speaker and the first thing I heard was enormous, dramatic fake sobs. I asked what had happened, and apparently DH had mentioned I’d gone for a scan to check all was ok and MIL had immediately decided my bleeding was because she’d bought things Too early and it was all her fault and how could she live with herself for (wait for it)... KILLING HER BABY!

Ummmmmm... who’s baby?

I said ‘MIL I’m going to hang up now and we can talk when you’re acting more appropriately, night’ in a very flat tone.

30 mins later just as we were settling down to eat, cue MIL walking straight in to the house (she always does this) still sobbing. I stood up to tell her to get the fuck out, but was stopped when she walks straight up to me, puts her hands on my intestines (no where near where baby is right now!) and starts whimpering ‘oh I thought I’d lost you baby!’ At my empty stomach.

DH hit the roof and told her she was acting like a complete head case and to go home, we’d call her to talk when we were ready. She left. We just stood completely lost for words for a few seconds before DH started apologising a lot.

So, obviously we change the locks and don’t give her a key, but how on earth do we address the fact that this attention seeking madness is likely a sign that she’s become quite unwell whilst still protecting ourselves from it? DH is an only child and MIL lives alone although she has a gentleman friend who visits daily. There isn’t really anyone else other than her siblings who can help with this.

I’m wondering whether to call DH’s aunt (they’re close), explain what’s happening and see if there’s any light she can shed on why MIL might be acting the way she is? She’s always been a centre of attention type, but never like this.

WTF do I do?

#bekind

Unless it's a MIL then you just cut contact apparently.

That's an idea PrimalLass my late totally barking MIL was loads better when she got a dog. She had no filter, if it was in her head she said it, one of the most embarrassing incidents was asking, in front of teenage sons, if my husband regretted his parents having him circumcised and had it affected our sex life.

She also had a total obsession with his first girlfriend, when he was 15, and stayed in touch with her for the next 50 years and would talk to me at length about this paragon of domestic virtue, her dressmaking was exquisite, her husband had freshly baked bread every morning, she sang like an angel and no one knew what the church choir would do without her. I used to say, "How lovely." and carry on with what i was doing. At the end of the day he chose me not her so how great could she be?

She sounds a sad old lady and slightly unbalanced but she's your husbands mum and she clearly loves him. Take the key back, don't tell her anything about your pregnancy other than everything is fine, be vague about dates and just remember the decisions about feeding, childcare etc are for you and your husband to make so don't get upset or argue and carry on I wouldn't make too much of an issue of what you are going to do as sometimes things change when the baby is here, for example if you engage in a battle about breastfeeding and you hate doing it or can't do it you will be upset as it will seem like a victory for her.

Honestly it's never ending.

You have my sympathies, it must be really stressful. As PP suggested, operant conditioning may be your only hope. Nice things happen when she controls herself, loss of contact when she oversteps. You have to be really clear. If she crosses a line, tell her clearly that she's done so and you're giving her a one week time out with no contact.

What struck me as the oddest is her not wanting you to breastfeed, given how widely understood the benefits for the baby are. I can only imagine that it's part of her plan to take periodic custody of the baby since she can then bottle feed.

Really a tough situation @Pregernaught.

@Sertchgi123 she's not elderly, she is early 60s. It is time she sorts out a life of her own.

It's funny but just a few threads ago, grandparents were being denied a life of their own on Mumsnet.

Grandparents need to step up.....

Sadly, you both should put your foot down now, if she continues to ring every 15 mins, then turns up, you need to let her continue till she gives up. You need to treat her like a child and be more stubborn than she is. Your DH needs to step up and take the key off her. Strict rules, maybe one visit a week. If she needs to speak to DH, she does it at a time when you are not around (or you say you aren't).

[quote Pregernaught]@bm2021 because I’ve been around her for most of my life and all of my adult life, I didn’t really know it was unacceptable behaviour until I gained some independence and started to grow up myself if that makes sense. DH did the same thing, as we got older we started to see her more clearly I think. It stepped up a gear when FIL died for sure, and then again now I’m pregnant.[/quote]
That's ringing many bells- worse during pg and few years afterwards for us.

Thing is you can't change how other's behave just how you react to it.

So it's management - boundaries, grey rock limited information trying to pre-empt situations and manage them so they have as little negative impact on you as possible.

I think you've been amazingly tolerant and patient, @Pregernaught. I think I would struggle to be as accomodating in your shoes.

Change the locks so she can't barge in. That's really overstepping your boundaries, as if you are little kids she can check up on.

I hope the pregnancy goes really well and wish you the best.

@MissConductUS the breastfeeding thing is a long standing issue that her sister has too. DH's cousin had a baby at 16/17 and they convinced the poor girl not to breastfeed because it's 'disgusting and rude' to breastfeed around other people apparently and it's selfish because it stops other people feeding the baby. She stuck to her guns and breastfed for a week but they were so critical and so horrible about it that she quit after that . MiL's sister is very very involved with her grandchild and always has been because her daughter was so young when she had him and she lived at home. MIL I think is comparing notes and a bit competitive with her sister so that's also part of the problem.

MIL believes I want to breastfeed to stop her having the baby overnight and that's the only reason anyone ever breastfeeds: to monopolize the baby. She also thinks breastmilk is exactly the same as cows milk, there's 'studies' to prove this apparently and that formula is much better for babies because it's 'made for them'. This has been her view for as long as I've known her. She'll talk about new mums we know disapprovingly if they're breastfeeding, or if it's someone she likes then it's because the mother has been 'brainwashed' into believing breastfeeding is good. And on and on and on it goes.

[quote Pregernaught]@diddl we don't 'entertain' it. We have tried not answering multiple times, she leaves a message, then calls back 15 mins later. She does this every 15 minutes leaving gradually more frantic messages. About 2 hours after the first call (this is after we asked her not to call nightly and have decided not to answer to try and put a stop to it), she'll come round to the house. On these occasions we've locked the door because we knew she'd be round to check on us, but she's used her key to let herself in despite my car being on the drive so she know perfectly well we're home. She'll then pretend to be desperately worried that something had happened to us and when she sees we're both fine and we say to her we didn't answer because we've asked her not to call, she gets very angry and tells us we're awful people for 'making her worry out of her mind like that' etc etc. Honestly, it's not worth it.

Usually, we answer the phone while we're cooking/ eating, say hello, tell her everything is fine and ask how her day was. We chat for 10 minutes and then hang up. We've asked her to call DH's mobile when he's on the bus back from work but she 'wants to hear from both of us'. Honestly it's never ending.[/quote]
It's only not worth it because you don't stick with it.

It will be horribly hard, but you have to stick with it.

Decide how often you are happy for her to call, tell her and then stick to it. It'll take a week or two for her to get used to it, but she will. That short term stress is worth it so that you won't be massively under pressure from constant calls when the baby arrives.

Oh, OP, the dislike of breastfeeding is a really common theme in these threads about MILs wanting to dominate newborns. It’s so bloody sad. Well done for sticking to your guns and closing this down.

And of course, it’s linked to her having the baby overnight without you ASAP. Please be ready to withstand this for as long as you want - even years and years. It will become a big thing from the first meeting.

Take care of yourself and let DP help keep the stress away from you.

[quote Pregernaught]@MissConductUS the breastfeeding thing is a long standing issue that her sister has too. DH's cousin had a baby at 16/17 and they convinced the poor girl not to breastfeed because it's 'disgusting and rude' to breastfeed around other people apparently and it's selfish because it stops other people feeding the baby. She stuck to her guns and breastfed for a week but they were so critical and so horrible about it that she quit after that . MiL's sister is very very involved with her grandchild and always has been because her daughter was so young when she had him and she lived at home. MIL I think is comparing notes and a bit competitive with her sister so that's also part of the problem.

MIL believes I want to breastfeed to stop her having the baby overnight and that's the only reason anyone ever breastfeeds: to monopolize the baby. She also thinks breastmilk is exactly the same as cows milk, there's 'studies' to prove this apparently and that formula is much better for babies because it's 'made for them'. This has been her view for as long as I've known her. She'll talk about new mums we know disapprovingly if they're breastfeeding, or if it's someone she likes then it's because the mother has been 'brainwashed' into believing breastfeeding is good. And on and on and on it goes.[/quote]
What an absolute c*nt she is, and her sister.

I hope you breastfeed til the child is at least two 😊

She sounds absolutely mad and I'm so sorry for you and your DH! You need other people to help her see this isn't appropriate. On an unrelated note, I'm so charmed by the romance of you marrying your childhood sweetheart, its so romantic!

@MeridianB I really do worry about that. I have a really irrational rage reaction to anything taking the baby away from me, people pointed out on my last thread that it was probably something to do with the miscarriages and i really agree. DH is totally with me on this though, he doesnt want MIL playing mum with his baby any more than i do.

I'm going to chat to DH tonight about setting boundaries again. We need a plan.

@Sarahsah4r4 I would love for you to explain what you mean by simple?

OP I feel for you, I really do. Your DH should be able to tell his mother things without her acting like a child. I have no idea how you are going to stop this without cutting all contact. I really hope this pregnancy goes well for you

Just be careful and set boundaries. She want your child so she will find every little fault. I don’t know her mental state but if it is bad, she could make lies about you or she could become irrational.

@Pregernaught you do need a plan, yes. But you need to be willing to carry it out and stick at it!

It’s no good making plans if you’re too passive to see them through!

I think some people who didn't breastfeed actually feel threatened by people that do, if she agrees it is better then she didn't do the best for her baby. Honestly I fed 4, one of them for 3 years, my MIL didn't approve and was always telling me she didn't do it as her milk was too thin! I just didn't engage, she gave up in the end. I suppose it can work the other way round.

@Pregernaught

DH was wrong to tell her I was out for a scan to check all was well, I totally understand why he did though, it wouldn't occur to him not to tell the truth, I don't think anyone would have predicted she'd be quite so over the top. He didn't tell her I'd bled. He told her I was out for a scan to check everything was ok, then she jumped from 0-she'd killed the baby in seconds apparently.

DH and I've talked about not telling her about the birth until we've had some time. COVID helps enormously with this. She's not allowed anywhere near the hospital and current restrictions will almost certainly still be in place, so that's good. We'll give ourselves plenty of time to get home and get settled before we say anything. I feel a bit mean about this, but I think it's the only way to manage her realistically which is such a shame.

We've also chatted about just not telling her anything at all about the pregnancy and changing the subject when she asks about it. This will be difficult though because it's all she wants to talk about whenever she calls. We don't share details generally, we just let her rattle about what she's bought and what she's planning. Some of it is lovely like she can't wait until baby is old enough to be taken to the zoo etc, some of it is not so lovely, like she wants to feed the baby so they can 'bond' and wishes I'd reconsider breast feeding. Me wanting to breastfeed is a real sticking point for her, she's really against it generally so when she brings this up I generally say 'we've spoken about this before, we wont be changing our plans'. She only knows about the breastfeeding in the first place because she wanted to buy a load of bottles and formula powders and we said they wouldnt be needed.

Do not feel mean for asserting your own boundaries. Anyone who makes you feel like this about a perfectly normal and natural thing to want and need time to establish your new family unit, is acting in a manner which is emotionally abusive.

Being overly involved in this manner is controlling behaviour. People might not like it being said but its right. At this point 'being kind' isn't helpful to you because its damaging you.

You need to manage her expectations about wanting to do x, y and z even though its nice otherwise thats going to blow up in your face too. If she wants to go to the zoo, you say "we'll see when the time comes etc etc".

The breastfeeding thing is a red flag to me, because its about wanting a baby for herself and cutting you out of the picture. She wants to relive her time as a parent because that seems to be where her self worth is.

She really needs to make a life for herself, which is independent of you. You constantly allowing her to be there all the time, means she isn't forced into doing that and it sounds like it will need to be forced.

Right now makes it more difficult because its harder to make new friends, but a) thats not ultimately your responsibility to work out a way for another grown adult to make friends b) as it might sound harsh you need to focus on your baby and you not her because of where you are in life.

She CAN NOT live her life through you. Nor should she expect to. Its a an unfair expectation.

The very fact you are having to think about how you manage her behaviour says it all. You are not being unfair in setting out having a separate life independent of her. You are just being an adult.

She is using you as an emotional crutch for her problems and unfortunately you aren't the ones who can ultimately fix that. By continuing to allow her to use you as an emotional crutch you aren't helping her either. You are going to hit points where she sets off huge arguments and problems if you allow her to as well, as she will constantly test how far she can push it. Its unavoidable because thats how she gets attention. And she will at some point cry off about how no one loves her and how appalling you are treating her when she's just trying to be nice and have some time with her grandchild. The reality is she's not being nice. She's being selfish and she not respecting the fact you are adults who now have grown up and have their own lives and she needs to accept that and move on in her life too. Her life doesn't end because this happens. She just needs to get on with enjoying the next phase of her life as a grandparent which is a different relationship than being a parent and involves having different interests and friends.

You also be mindful of the trap of getting into conversations about 'why not'. The response is 'no thats not convient for us and I don't have to explain why'. Otherwise she sets you up to engage further and justify yourself constantly. 'No we will not be doing that and its not open for debate' rather than 'No we will not be doing that because x, y or z reason'.

@Tootletum as my hilarious sister said in her speech at our wedding: it's not romantic that we ended up married, we just both lack imagination

DH and I were best mates from about the age of 4, used to knock about in the playground together and get laughed at because we wanted to be together and not with the girls/ boys. We had a bigger friendship group around us (and still do!) but it was always him and me against the world really. We decided to start 'going out' when we were 13 and have been together ever since. We both decided we could see other people when we both went off to different Uni's, but neither of us ever did. He's my best friend.

She does this every 15 minutes leaving gradually more frantic messages. About 2 hours after the first call (this is after we asked her not to call nightly and have decided not to answer to try and put a stop to it), she'll come round to the house. On these occasions we've locked the door because we knew she'd be round to check on us, but she's used her key to let herself in despite my car being on the drive so she know perfectly well we're home. She'll then pretend to be desperately worried that something had happened to us and when she sees we're both fine and we say to her we didn't answer because we've asked her not to call, she gets very angry and tells us we're awful people for 'making her worry out of her mind like that' etc etc. Honestly, it's not worth it.

It is worth it in the long run, though. I've been through exactly this. You have to say: stop this, you're being ridiculous and melodramatic and it isn't normal, we're not going to put up with it. If you stop indulging this behaviour, she'll stop doing it. And it is worth it.

@Pregernaught you poor thing! I think you and your DH have dealt with things pretty well over the years and as you’ve said it’s only really dawned on you gradually over time how unreasonable her behaviour really is. I agree with many others here that she is a narcissist. There is lots online about dealing with these characters, it’s never easy. I was sadly married to one for a short while.
Your Mil is only able to view the situation from her own point of view and she needs to be made to see that you are adults and deserving of your own space. You clearly care for her and want to involve her, just on your terms. I really hope things improve. I think you need to lay down the law and say that she is only to ring 3 days a week for example (you set the days). Meanwhile make it clear if she rings at other times you will not answer or be letting her in the front door.
I’m pregnant too and I just feel so sorry for you that you can’t relax and enjoy the pregnancy. Your pregnancy! Not hers! My word she’s come out with some shocking things OP! And as for posting on fb about your losses; my heart breaks for you.
I’m going through my own MiL issues but they are almost the opposite. My DH is also an only child and she clearly didn’t really want him and has no time for him(although her home is plastered in pictures of him through the ages of his life). She flatly told me when we married that he doesn’t want children and I wasn’t to trick him into them. I assured her that we both actually felt the same way about wanting children. Like you it’s taken a decade. Earlier this summer we had a miscarriage which ‘serves me right’ apparently as he never wanted children. Erm... yes he does! Now I’m pregnant again, we are only at 10 weeks... she doesn’t know yet. Hopefully we can keep it secret until Christmas.
I hope you get to give birth and bring baby home and introduce it on your terms. Your MiL is clearly living her life through her son, so I hope she finds some other interests to live for, for everyone’s sakes.

@Pregernaught aaah thatbjistbtotallybmade my day!!

Ignore her tantrums no matter how bad. There is no other way.

It's good practice for when your baby becomes a toddler.

Err but my phone doesn't. Totally made my day it should say.