People not understanding what no deal actually means?

[flashbac]

Do you understand what it means? For food prices, crime enforcement, things that affect you?
Think we can just trade with the rest of the world come January? Easy as that? Do WTO rules ring a bell? Pound crashing?
Or do you think sunlit uplands await you?

If you go on the gov website it tells you all the food labelling guidelines for post Brexit. Of course it won’t be illegal to label British meat. People are just making stuff up. It reminds me a bit of wonky bananas.

you do know who started the wonky banana bullshit though, right?

For the labelling with country of origin - what i understand is that the target country (UK in this case) will not be able to label country of origin so as to identify meat coming from the US? It seems quite unclear at the moment.

When i buy meat from a supermarket (increasingly rare, and also not in the UK) I tend to get the meat that has the QR code so i can see where it came from.

The problem, as usual, is that nothing is being spelt out in an easy to understand, clear way. That is the worrying part for me, it's all so "suck it and see"

All I know is that millennials and Gen X are totally fucked with Brexit and Covid for the next decade at least

Oh well, that's lovely isn't it. May as well end it all now then.

I just don't buy into the hyperbole. It's one thing to be concerned about animal welfare and food safety standards, but it's quite another to state "we will be locked out of trading with the EU" (or whatever it was).

We will figure it out, we buy more than we sell, i.e. we spend a lot of money on imports. If the EU decide not to trade with us they would be very foolish indeed. And personally I wouldn't want to be controlled by them if they are so willing to disadvantage their people out of hubris.

I'm not saying it will be easy but in the long run being more self sufficient can only be a good thing.

Also looks like we will have an abundance of fish, so that's good news.

That's a shop in the US. When countries make a trade deal with the US those countries are banned from having country of origin etc.

Canada for example? Why are the EU in the process of ratifying a free-trade deal with Canada?

It’s a bit disingenuous to quote from Sprouts website - that’s a natural / organic food store and is far removed from the standard Kroger / Albertsons / Walmart etc.

Aldi will do well then;

"As part of Aldi’s commitment to championing Great British quality, many of our products are sourced from the UK. In fact, our entire core range of fresh meat and milk is from British, Red Tractor approved farms. We are the market leader in the amount of fresh produce we sell which is British."

www.aldi.co.uk/british-quality

I just don't buy into the hyperbole.

THIS is the crux of the issue. Most people think its hyperbole. It isn't.

If you want a real world idea of US food standards, just look at what has happened to Cadbury's chocolate since the takeover by Mondelez.

@LemonTT

The majority of people wanted to leave. Just like the majority of Irish people wanted to leave the UK 100 years ago. At some point the majority of Scottish people may too. Lots of examples of people voting to leave unions which are purely driven by nationalism and sovereignty ideals.

Very few examples of this happening without economic pain or punishment. Very few examples of it being regretted by those nationalists.

Btw I loathe nationalism, but this is what it is. Brexit was English nationalism stirred up by people with an economic stake in shattering the EU.

Scottish nationalism, atm, is even more bizarre. Leave the Uk and then transfer sovereignty to the EU.

What? Do you know anything about Ireland or Scotland? I'm baffled by your understanding of Ireland's relationship to GB. Or, the difference between what the Act of Union between Scotland and England and what the EU is.

And I didn't vote leave btw, I wish I had now after seeing how the EU have acted, not that anyone sees how peevish they have been about all this. Like how dare we have the audacity to want independence?

It's weird how any other country who wants independence from foreign control doesn't have to justify why, yet the UK does?

Maybe I am naive - but didn’t we go through all this macho posturing chest-beating and announcing we were going to walk away from the negotiating table before we signed the withdrawal agreement?

Ah yes, the agreement which Johnson and chums have just voted to rip up in a specific and limited way, when the ink is hardly dry.

[quote Clavinova]That's a shop in the US. When countries make a trade deal with the US those countries are banned from having country of origin etc.

Canada for example? Why are the EU in the process of ratifying a free-trade deal with Canada?

It’s a bit disingenuous to quote from Sprouts website - that’s a natural / organic food store and is far removed from the standard Kroger / Albertsons / Walmart etc.

Aldi will do well then;

"As part of Aldi’s commitment to championing Great British quality, many of our products are sourced from the UK. In fact, our entire core range of fresh meat and milk is from British, Red Tractor approved farms. We are the market leader in the amount of fresh produce we sell which is British."

www.aldi.co.uk/british-quality[/quote]
American food products sold in Canada are not labelled as being from the US.

Why you think this has anything to do with the EU or Aldi I have no idea.

We will figure it out, we buy more than we sell, i.e. we spend a lot of money on imports. If the EU decide not to trade with us they would be very foolish indeed. And personally I wouldn't want to be controlled by them if they are so willing to disadvantage their people out of hubris.

This is the old "they need us more than we need them argument", which is utter nonsense.

The EU are not deciding not to trade with the UK (sorry for all the negatives ). However, they are not willing to give the UK an unfair advantage, which is what the UK is looking for. That is not disadvantaging their people out of hubris, but rather protecting their people and their livelihoods.

@DTIsOnlyForNow

I just don't buy into the hyperbole.

THIS is the crux of the issue. Most people think its hyperbole. It isn't.

It's also seems to be the best argument for why it is hyperbole. If someone disagrees and thinks it's over reaction that's fine, but tell us why. They don't seem to be able to do that

I wish I had now after seeing how the EU have acted, not that anyone sees how peevish they have been about all this. Like how dare we have the audacity to want independence?

It's not peevish, how childish are you? Its generally sheer bemusement at bumbling Boris and his outrageous lies and demands.

It's weird how any other country who wants independence from foreign control doesn't have to justify why, yet the UK does

Fuck me are you for real? First off, most of those "foreign countries" wanted independence from the UK, who brutally conquered them, stole from them, enslaved them and killed them. They didn't beg the UK to take them on, the way the UK begged to join the EEC.
And finally, the EU never fucking controlled the UK in any sense at all.

So Much Stupid.

European Commission
MEMO
Brussels, 2 October 2013

"1."Return of the curvy cucumber"/fruit and vegetable marketing standards:The completion of the Single market led to the adoption of marketing standards for fruits and vegetables, partly based on standards already existing at national level.The aim was to facilitate trade on the base of fair competition, help producers to meet consumer expectations and keep unsatisfactory products off the market.Specific rules were adopted over the years and by 1996 a total of 36 fruit and vegetables were regulated by specific marketing standards.These however were criticized for being unnecessarily complex and leading to food waste, with "ugly" fruits and vegetables with non-conventional shapes and sizes being excluded from the market.This led the Commission to review and simplify the rules and rationalize checking operations. Labels will indicate origin, but no longer class, size or variety. As a result of the simplification efforts undertaken in 2008, specific marketing standards have been brought down to a set of 10 specific rules in force today (and as from 1 July 2009).The specific standard for cucumbers, for example, was withdrawn. As a result the famous "curvy cucumbers", formerly banned, can now be legally put on the market.This measure can save up to €970 million annually."

ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/MEMO_13_833

but tell us why. They don't seem to be able to do that

Youve been told. You say its hyperbole. Remember?

ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/MEMO_13_833

Yes I do. My point was that both brexiteers and remainers can be as over dramatic and as dishonest as each other.

@GhostofFrankGrimes thank you

*Just like the majority of Irish people wanted to leave the UK 100 years ago.

Wanting independence because your colonisers had historically looked on as a famine unfolded and burnt you out of your home isn't quite the same as being aggrieved about bendy banannas. *

The very fact that people seriously draw equivalence between independence of a former colony and leaving a very powerful trading cartel illustrates everything that has been wrong with the whole discussion.

@DTIsOnlyForNow

I just don't buy into the hyperbole.

THIS is the crux of the issue. Most people think its hyperbole. It isn't.

But it is, do you really have so little faith that this country can support itself.

Nothing works right as it is now, food is cheap, wages are low, housing prices are extortionate. There's an imbalance to our economy that is propped up by subsidies and taxes, but it doesn't work. You have to break a lot of eggs to make an omelet, make a mess to have a good clear out, etc.

Nothing good comes easy and just because you can't see the long term outcomes doesn't mean you are correct.

It's weird how any other country who wants independence from foreign control doesn't have to justify why, yet the UK does?

Theres a world of difference between colonalism (see British Empire and Ireland - 800 years of it) and a trading block you chose to join with very favourable terms. Britain/Brexiteers needs to stop playing the victim, doing this simply because Brexit has been exposed as a shitshow and you don't actually hold any cards.

@amusedtodeath1

And I didn't vote leave btw, I wish I had now after seeing how the EU have acted, not that anyone sees how peevish they have been about all this. Like how dare we have the audacity to want independence?

It's weird how any other country who wants independence from foreign control doesn't have to justify why, yet the UK does?

Nobody is expecting the UK to justify why is wants to leave the EU. However, we are expecting you to leave in a manner that upholds the GFA. We are also expecting you to exhibit good faith in your negotiations and not announce that you intend breaking an international agreement when the ink is barely dry.

It's weird how any other country who wants independence from foreign control doesn't have to justify why, yet the UK does?

The EU is a union of equals, where all members have a say (and a veto in certain cases). There is no "foreign control". There is discussion and agreement on the direction taken.

The country hasn't been able to feed itself since about the 1850s. It may with difficulty be able to do so in future, but it would require long term planning and an acceptance of completely changed diets.

I haven't seen any long term planning going on- the changed diets may be forced upon us.

do you really have so little faith that this country can support itself

Do you seriously have faith that it can? It's a total shit show already, and you want to take away most of the supporting structures that prop it up. If you somehow think the country is going to rise up in glory like a phoenix, you're one of those deluded fools that thought Nigel Farage was a sensible chap.

SimonJT
When countries make a trade deal with the US those countries are banned from having country of origin etc
American food products sold in Canada are not labelled as being from the US.

How will the EU know the food products they are importing from Canada didn't originate from the US?

I didn't think Johnson could possibly be a worse PM than May.

you were extremely naive then, it was obvious he would always have been an utter disaster.

Oh sure, but better than May is not a high bar. The poster who thinks we should all grow swedes would be better than TM.