People not understanding what no deal actually means?

[flashbac]

Do you understand what it means? For food prices, crime enforcement, things that affect you?
Think we can just trade with the rest of the world come January? Easy as that? Do WTO rules ring a bell? Pound crashing?
Or do you think sunlit uplands await you?

I long ago came to the conclusion that trying to get Leave voters to understand the consequences of what they'd done was just a waste of oxygen. No matter what evidence they were shown they still wouldn't listen.

They'd still think it was a jolly jape, all blue passports, unicorn sanctuaries, fishing rights, stopping immigrants, and "sovereignty". I mean, all those dopey Remain voters are just complete eejits, talking about how it would impact education, health and medicine, food and alcohol supply, or even their little trips to their second homes in Spain. Norn Iron? Who cares? I mean, where is it, anyway? Besides, the UK just has so much to offer Europe, dontcha know, what with it being an empire and a world leader and all. (Especially when it comes to COVID-19, now.) Besides, what could possibly affect us since we're bestest chums with that other bastion of sanity, the United States of America (aka Gilead), and that second bastion of sanity, tolerance and lack of misogyny, Australia. (I've had to stop looking at the verdict on the Jackson Williams case on that one, as I will put my fist through my computer screen.)

On a brighter note, our "Don't Blame Me, I Voted Remain" badges arrived in the post this morning.

@amusedtodeath1

Most people are aware that it will be difficult, but will improve over time. Yes prices of EU imported goods will rise, but we can and do import and export outside the EU. The EU is only a small portion of the world.

Add to that the incentive to be more self sufficient, less transport cost, more environmentally friendly.

You're focusing solely on the possible negative impact without considering how it could potentially benefit us. It's difficult to get your head around at first, change is always scary, but it's not necessarily worse, just different.

How does trading with the rest of the world, in preference to our near neighbours reduce transport costs or become more environmentally friendly?

Incentive to be come more self sufficient or starve?

If they're the best benefits you can find....

Most people are aware that it will be difficult, but will improve over time. Yes prices of EU imported goods will rise, but we can and do import and export outside the EU. The EU is only a small portion of the world.

Have you grasped the concept of gravity?

The majority of people wanted to leave. Just like the majority of Irish people wanted to leave the UK 100 years ago

Do you have any idea how offensive it is to compare those two things? FFS.

I don't think it'll be illegal to label BRITISH meat will it?

Yes, it will. No labels on all products, including fruit and vegetables. Vegetarians will equally be exposed to far higher levels of pesticides than are currently permitted, and you won’t be able to avoid them, because you won’t know. Unless, as one poster said, you grow your own tomatoes on your balcony in your flat...

I don't think it'll be illegal to label BRITISH meat will it?
I'm afraid it will.

How odd - if I lived in the US I can buy (for example); "Grass Fed Ground Beef Patties" - with labels such as, "Born, Pasture Raised and Harvested in the USA" - "no antibiotics or added hormones" - "never given animal by-products."

shop.sprouts.com/
about.sprouts.com/about/

@SchadenfreudePersonified

I don't think it'll be illegal to label BRITISH meat will it?

I'm afraid it will.

If you go on the gov website it tells you all the food labelling guidelines for post Brexit. Of course it won’t be illegal to label British meat. People are just making stuff up. It reminds me a bit of wonky bananas. Maybe brexiteers and remainers have more in common than they realise!

I'm baffled by the people who say 'this is anxiety inducing, why are you posting it' - yes, it IS anxiety inducing. And if you don't want to read about the possible outcomes, don't, but it's still true.

I think January onwards is going to be a big old mess for a while. Good thing I don't need medication to keep me alive! ...Oh. Wait. I do.

Stores -
www.sprouts.com/stores/

"Yes prices of EU imported goods will rise, but we can and do import and export outside the EU. The EU is only a small portion of the world.

Add to that the incentive to be more self sufficient, less transport cost, more environmentally friendly."

Geographically, many countries in the EU are our closest neighbours. It makes far more sense to import fruit and vegetables that won't grow easily in our damp, cool climate from warmer but near places like S France, Spain and Portugal, than it does to bring them in from anywhere further away.

@duffeldaisy, very good point re social memory. I think it’s important to attempt to keep telling our children what it was like, but you’re right that some things are already being lost. It’s like not questioning why the English partially pay for prescriptions unless they’ve got an exemption form which isn’t publicised at all, but here in Wales we don’t. (I was in London before Wales.)

It’s also things like the lack of Saturday jobs and gap year work, that our parents didn’t have quite the same experience with and could also become worse (and isn’t helped by expensive train fares as what you earn isn’t often much over the fare). I was in the unpaid internship generation, my friends and I worked for years for no money at all and boarded for free on the sofa of whoever had a uni house and would take us. Especially those in the arts, fashion, art, journalism etc. A lot of people never got a career and are still in supermarket work or similar in their 30s, though not wanting to be. I think Brexit will squeeze that further (especially with Covid on top) as some companies just won’t be able to make profits, as mentioned by a pp. There are still loopholes for unpaid internships, but a lot of the jobs that my friends went into after failing to get jobs they trained for after internships (eg. Finance, tourism, manufacturing) may well be affected again - and many don’t yet own a home. Those are sort of underlying knock on effects that in some ways won’t have been considered, but that are likely to have a slightly different outcome on each generation.

From the same supermarket store in the US;

"New Zealand Lamb 85% Lean Ground Lamb Brings Hearty Protein To Sandwiches, Curries And Casseroles With Reduced Fat. Enrich Your Recipes With Premium Meat Made From High-quality Livestock That Graze On The Lush Pastural Landscapes Of New Zealand. Use This 16 Oz. Portion Of Ground Lamb To Whip Up Juicy Burgers And Wraps Or Savory Stews And Pastas While Enjoying Peace Of Mind That Every Bite Is Free Of Added Hormones, Antibiotics And Artificial Ingredients."

US meat labelling is not at all transparent - beef labelled “Product of the USA” only has to be repackaged in the USA, it could have been raised, slaughtered or processed anywhere.

thecounter.org/country-of-origin-label-cool-american-beef-usda-grassfed/amp/

[quote Clavinova]I don't think it'll be illegal to label BRITISH meat will it?
I'm afraid it will.

How odd - if I lived in the US I can buy (for example); "Grass Fed Ground Beef Patties" - with labels such as, "Born, Pasture Raised and Harvested in the USA" - "no antibiotics or added hormones" - "never given animal by-products."

shop.sprouts.com/
about.sprouts.com/about/[/quote]
Thats a shop in the US. When countries make a trade deal with the US those countries are banned from having country of origin etc.

It doesn’t in anyway prevent country of origin being on products sold in the US.

I don't really understand the full implications of no deal. It's too depressing to think about right now as it's not something I can control or influence.

I voted to remain.

Not everyone who is confused by all this is a Brexiteer. I don't think ranting at us for our ignorance helps, OP. I'm burying my head in the sand because what can I actually do at this point?

I'll have sunlit uplands, whatever they are.
Stop fretting, FA we can do about any of the shit shows happening atm.

It’s not relevant to us in the U.K. what the US has on its labels there. What matters will be the lack of labelling on products in the UK - which is the only way we will get any sort of trade deal with the US.

I've been made part of our project to prepare for it for my employer. I have a vague idea but nothing clear. BEIS seminars are so superficial they are useless. It's going to be shit and involve a lot more red tape and bureaucracy for us and our suppliers.

People lost their shit in March, fought over toilet paper and knocked over the elderly to get the last few tins of peas on a shelf. People hell bent on holidays and parties and having tantrums because the luxuries they were used to were temporarily curtailed.

People are going to absolutely lose your shit when there are ACTUAL shortages in the supermarkets, the pharmacist and other places.

Britain's shortages will be blamed on Covid, or turnips and not on the poor decisions the people in charge made on your behalf.

It’s a bit disingenuous to quote from Sprouts website - that’s a natural / organic food store and is far removed from the standard Kroger / Albertsons / Walmart etc.

Incidentally, I think a lot of Brexiters think it'll a) be rubbish for a bit then go back to normal or b) not be any different.

I don't claim to understand it all but what causes me most concern is that I do understand the people who are worried about the effects of no deal:

-NI
-food standards
-rising costs
-supply of medicines
-lack of necessary immigrant labour

Etc etc

But the attempt by the "other" side to explain why it will all be fine and/or may bring benefits make no sense at all and largely seem to amount to it's all scaremongering or "I live in very specific priveledged circumstances and don't expect to be negatively affected".

So far on this thread, the best efforts seem to be the environmental benefits of importing/exporting far and wide and swede

Because so many sectors will be affected in so many different ways, I think you seriously need to be an expert or a total geek to 'understand' and know what a no-deal will mean, and even then some of this is down to predictions which can go wrong.

There is such a lack of clarity that it's near impossible to measure, even now, just how much of an impact it will have. Bonkers.

I've stopped caring now. All I know is that millennials and Gen X are totally fucked with Brexit and Covid for the next decade at least. Never ending shit show. Wish I was born in my grandparents generation.

Gen Z, not Gen X*