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AIBU?

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Original poster

John Leslie - AIBU to agree that men accused of sexual assault should have anonymity until charged?

550 replies

FauxFurCoatAndBigKnickers · 19/10/2020 17:17

Having 3 sons myself (and a daughter), cases like this are really worrying as people will always think ‘there’s no smoke without fire’.

I don’t understand why John Leslie didn’t sue the arse off that jibbering imbecile Wright or why Jonsson started the witch hunt then refused to speak out. That was what started off all the rest of the allegations and if, as it seems, he is entirely innocent, it is a disgusting travesty and has totally ruined his life.

Non DM link below:
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/john-leslie-trial-not-guilty-a4572176.html%3famp

OP posts:
derxa · 21/10/2020 11:03

All these lovely male dominated environments where the men love women so much and see them as equals - despite working with very, very few of them and shrugging their shoulders at the idea that an environment, in 2020, can be male dominated. Like farming?

Pumperthepumper · 21/10/2020 11:04

@Bluntness100

I genuinely have no idea why a bun fight is starting, I can’t change the fact many women don’t apply to work in the industry I’m in, nor will I lie that the men have been anything but professional.

There is nothing to fight about, no right or wrong. It is what it is, thems th facts.

What bun fight? Your theory is that your male-dominated environment is because women don’t like dirty work. That’s not true.

You can change it, actually. Contact your head office and see about talking to high schools about how important it is to get women in your sector. Stop shrugging your shoulders at the idea that a professional stem-related environment can be male-dominated in 2020. No doubt your colleagues will support you too.

ShebaShimmyShake · 21/10/2020 11:13

@Bluntness100

I genuinely have no idea why a bun fight is starting, I can’t change the fact many women don’t apply to work in the industry I’m in, nor will I lie that the men have been anything but professional.

There is nothing to fight about, no right or wrong. It is what it is, thems th facts.

To be honest, I'm just a bit annoyed by the "some women don't support other women" comment. It's not that it's not true - some people don't support others and there are various gender pairings possible - but I'm irritated that you reached for the tired old thing of focusing on women as if it's so much more common or terrible, especially given the context of the discussion. Men don't have a history of getting on swimmingly, as any history textbook will tell you.
thatwouldbeanecumenicalmatter · 21/10/2020 11:27

@Pumperthepumper

1 in 5? I don't know a single woman who hasn't been harassed in public, touched up without consent or yelled at from cars. I literally do not know a single woman with no experience of this

Me neither, yet they always miraculously appear on anonymous Internet forums and comment on threads about sexual abuse for ‘balance’.

Ditto. I bet it's the tip of the iceberg. My DM for example says she's never been sexually assaulted but doesn't count the stories she's told me about very clear cut sexual assaults she's experienced because she doesn't think they're 'that bad'. But she was brought up in a 'boys will be boys' culture.
LindaEllen · 21/10/2020 11:38

I personally think that anyone accused of a crime (plus those accusing) should have anonymity until after the trial.

But with rape it's so difficult.

There's often not enough evidence, particularly in these cases where people have come forward as victims years later. I mean, what evidence can there possibly be at this point?

But at the same time, I knew a girl at high school who accused someone of rape in her 20s because she was annoyed at him for cheating on her, it went to court. He was found not guilty, but fuck me, he had to go to sodding court for no reason. She fully admitted to me afterwards that it wasn't even true. I was disgusted with her.

An accusation of sexual assault can stay with a man for life, whether true or not. It's important to be as sure as possible before allowing anyone to learn his name.

StoneofDestiny · 21/10/2020 11:51

The whole argument is getting distorted on here and comments are being reinvented to suit.

This thread was about John Leslie and about anonymity for men accused of sexual assault. Now it's moved in and out of 'sexual assault' and 'workplace discrimination of women'.

To get to the top of my profession I had to smash many glass ceilings. I know I had to work twice as hard as men on equal salary to get to the top. There were a host of reasons for that - tradition, precedent, attitudes of men and women before me. The country is still evolving with regards to discrimination of all sorts - and it needs challenging at every level.
However, in regards to sexual assault, that's a different issue. Never experienced it and never saw it. That wasn't an issue I'd faced or anybody around me did. Sex discrimination - yes - sexual assault, no.
In that regard the men around me were wholly professional. That isn't to say it doesn't happen, and clearly does, when reading comments on here and studying the media.

My point remains the same - all men are not the problem.

PandemicAtTheDisco · 21/10/2020 11:52

A woman getting raped isn't big news.

A woman falsely accusing a man of rape is. The story will be hugely over reported in the media giving a false impression of how prevalent it is.

stackemhigh · 21/10/2020 11:53

@StoneofDestiny you could have just said NAMALT and saved yourself a 100 words.

Pumperthepumper · 21/10/2020 11:53

My point remains the same - all men are not the problem.

What are all men doing to stop the problem?

stackemhigh · 21/10/2020 11:54

NAMALT absolves men of any responsibility.

Bluntness100 · 21/10/2020 11:58

Agree, this thread is being derailed hugely.

Pumperthepumper · 21/10/2020 11:58

@StoneofDestiny

For balance, I worked in a very male dominated industry for years and the attitude to women was disgusting. Just because it's not your experience doesn't mean it doesn't happen

Never said it didn't happen.
For balance, I've worked in male dominated environments where the attitude to women was not disgusting.

Also ironic you’re complaining about the discussion moving on to workplaces, when it was you who brought it up.

Why were those environments male-dominated do you think?

StoneofDestiny · 21/10/2020 11:59

Wow - and you might as well go round with a banner saying 'All men are a problem'.
They are not.
You've clearly not met enough good men to keep a perspective.

Pumperthepumper · 21/10/2020 12:00

@StoneofDestiny

Wow - and you might as well go round with a banner saying 'All men are a problem'. They are not. You've clearly not met enough good men to keep a perspective.
You can’t answer? Why not?
StoneofDestiny · 21/10/2020 12:01

I think pumper you can see your comment was first - I responded to it.

Pumperthepumper · 21/10/2020 12:02

@StoneofDestiny

I think pumper you can see your comment was first - I responded to it.
No, my question was what are ALL men doing to stop women being raped? You didn’t answer.
derxa · 21/10/2020 12:03

I don't think JL went after children. Or old people, people with SEND, corpses etc.

StoneofDestiny · 21/10/2020 12:03

pumper it happened because of workplace discrimination, not sexual assaults

everybodysang · 21/10/2020 12:04

I was sexually assaulted by someone well known over 20 years ago, who has several times been found not guilty in court of more serious offences. Over the last few decades I've met several women who were also assaulted by him and know of several others. None of us have been to court. Mine was fairly minor but there were a LOT of witnesses (which is why it wasn't more serious but he did want me to go home with him). We don't go to court because we don't want to go through all this shit.
No smoke without fire, I'd say.

Pumperthepumper · 21/10/2020 12:09

@StoneofDestiny

pumper it happened because of workplace discrimination, not sexual assaults
What are all men doing to stop sexual assaults?

And since you brought it up, what are all of your lovely colleagues doing to get more of the women they love and respect into their environment?

Cait73 · 21/10/2020 12:12

This poses more questions than it answers

StoneofDestiny · 21/10/2020 12:16

Well pumper oddly enough, colleagues are appointed on merit, not gender, race or creed’. The workplace is a changed place since I started out due to a number of factors.
I’m sure men are doing all the same good work you are doing to stop sexual assaults.

Pumperthepumper · 21/10/2020 12:18

@StoneofDestiny

Well pumper oddly enough, colleagues are appointed on merit, not gender, race or creed’. The workplace is a changed place since I started out due to a number of factors. I’m sure men are doing all the same good work you are doing to stop sexual assaults.
Really? Not on gender? So those male-dominated environments are just because those particular men happened to be better than any other women?

Still no answer? No examples from all these good men?

Bluntness100 · 21/10/2020 12:25

Oh dear.

CleverCatty · 21/10/2020 12:28

agreed with anonymity until they are charged - but as a few other posters have said here - most people I know know that John Leslie was a sleaze. when it came out I worked for an architects in London and the PR manager there gave me the heads up - it was well known in her PR circle.