John Leslie - AIBU to agree that men accused of sexual assault should have anonymity until charged?

[FauxFurCoatAndBigKnickers]

Having 3 sons myself (and a daughter), cases like this are really worrying as people will always think ‘there’s no smoke without fire’.

I don’t understand why John Leslie didn’t sue the arse off that jibbering imbecile Wright or why Jonsson started the witch hunt then refused to speak out. That was what started off all the rest of the allegations and if, as it seems, he is entirely innocent, it is a disgusting travesty and has totally ruined his life.

Non DM link below:
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/john-leslie-trial-not-guilty-a4572176.html%3famp

@StoneofDestiny

What is this need you have for ‘balance’ that you have to shoot down every comment? I suspect you’re not as much Team Man as you want to pretend you are, if you’re twitching at the idea that you need to share your experience to ‘balance’ the countless women so far on this thread that have had the opposite. That’s not balance, that’s sticking your head in the sand

I'm answering the comment about 'for balance' which was a one sided comment - so not balanced at all. I'm not shooting down the experience of others, I'm simply not wishing to paint all men as 'a problem', they are not.

They are. They’re not doing enough to stop rapes. All of them. Every single one.

People imagine rapists as some hooded figure in a dark alleyway at night, not your neighbour who nags and guilt trips his wife into sex, or your boss who gets a bit gropey at the Christmas party or your friend from uni who always tries it on when you meet up. And not necessarily rape in itself but an entire culture of ‘ah men! Men and their inability to control their desires! Lovely men who just want to have a good time and the selfish, boring, frigid, humourless women who won’t let them’.

I'd like to add to your list men who think they are are owed sex by their female friends for being a Nice Guy™️. This man Isn't Like Other Men, he just wants to be your friend because he respects women sooooo much. He'll then complain bitterly about being constantly Friend Zoned by stuck-up bitches who fail to see the Nice Guy™️ that's right there in front of them.

I used to have male friends but found that even the most platonic of friends would inevitably get that look in their eye after a few drinks or make a subtle innuendo. It made me very uncomfortable to the point that I distanced myself from them all. Now my only male friends are gay, and even with them I would leave the friendship if there was ever a whiff of innuendo.

I also work in a male dominated environment, and the men are nothin but professional. They behave no differently to my male friends and family who treat women with respect snd as equals.

I am reticent to tar all men with the same brush here. Just as there are indeed bad men, there are also bad women, and neither gender is all bad.

And not to mention all these people who work in ‘male dominated environments’ - it’s 2020! What are these environments that males dominate, and why would that be?

All these lovely male dominated environments where the men love women so much and see them as equals - despite working with very, very few of them and shrugging their shoulders at the idea that an environment, in 2020, can be male dominated.

@Bluntness100

I also work in a male dominated environment, and the men are nothin but professional. They behave no differently to my male friends and family who treat women with respect snd as equals.

I am reticent to tar all men with the same brush here. Just as there are indeed bad men, there are also bad women, and neither gender is all bad.

Women have literally invented a movement to stop the harm that men do. What are all these lovey men doing to support women? In the environment they dominate? Why, if they’re such allies to women, is their environment still male dominated?

Women have literally invented a movement to stop the harm that men do. What are all these lovey men doing to support women? In the environment they dominate? Why, if they’re such allies to women, is their environment still male dominated?

Look. I am not willing to brand all men as evil. It is not my experience. I am also not willing to argue with you. And the reason my work is male dominated is because of the field it is and few women apply for it. There are many industries that due to their nature are male dominated, as there are industries that are female dominated.

It is not a conspiracy.

My employer is listed in the top 50 employers for women and women are present in every level of the hierarchy. However I still get misogynistic treatment from men. Even working in a non-male environment is no guarantee against misogyny. I fear detailed examples will be outing but includes things like endearments in meetings, comments on my choice of clothing and questioning my expertise.

@Bluntness100

Women have literally invented a movement to stop the harm that men do. What are all these lovey men doing to support women? In the environment they dominate? Why, if they’re such allies to women, is their environment still male dominated?

Look. I am not willing to brand all men as evil. It is not my experience. I am also not willing to argue with you. And the reason my work is male dominated is because of the field it is and few women apply for it. There are many industries that due to their nature are male dominated, as there are industries that are female dominated.

It is not a conspiracy.

I’m not branding all men as evil, just ambivalent. It’s easy for all men to sit back and do nothing, or very little, while people pile up to cry ‘not all men are rapists!’ Men get things done, and that’s a fact. Men could end sexism immediately if they all, all of them, wanted to.

The industries that are female-dominated tend to be caring or nurturing roles, and the reason they stay that way is because many, many men think that type of role is beneath them.

Few women apply to work in your industry? Why would that be? What with it being such a pro-women, inclusive, supportive place to work?

It's tricky because in some cases the police need to go public to allow other victims who didn't report at the time to come forward. I would support that only a judge can remove anonymity eg if the police want to ask the public to come forward they would have to prove to a judge that this is needed. In family cases it's generally anonymous so no reason why in criminal cases it's not.

I have worked in male-dominated industries and some women think there is a cachet in being one of the few women to work there.

The reason many women don’t often apply to work in my industry is because at its core it is very dirty and very heavy work. It is also very stem based, which historically lacked women. So couple the stem subject with very dirty heavy work and it remains male dominated to this day. I’m in it by default and don’t do that type of work, but overall women are a tiny percentage of the applicants.

And let’s be honest here, plenty of women don’t support other women. So let’s not pretend the sister hood is some soft cuddly all inclusive thing.

I won’t brand all men as evil and I won’t brand all women as saints. Simoly every one is an individual.

My cousin is one of I suspect hundreds of women who has a tale to tell about John Leslie. The man has cashed in on his small amount of fame by trying to fuck as many women as possible. This reminds me of the Jimmy Saville thing. Initially, a couple of women came forwards. I remember his nephew (standing by that ridiculous, massive grave) saying how they were trying to cash in on his fame. Before you knew it, he was unearthed as Britain’s most prolific sexual predator (which some folk had known all along and never says anything) There are instances where someone’s name being out there will prompt others to come forwards.

@Bluntness100

The reason many women don’t often apply to work in my industry is because at its core it is very dirty and very heavy work. It is also very stem based, which historically lacked women. So couple the stem subject with very dirty heavy work and it remains male dominated to this day. I’m in it by default and don’t do that type of work, but overall women are a tiny percentage of the applicants.

And let’s be honest here, plenty of women don’t support other women. So let’s not pretend the sister hood is some soft cuddly all inclusive thing.

I won’t brand all men as evil and I won’t brand all women as saints. Simoly every one is an individual.

This doesn’t make any logical sense, Bluntness. Cleaning, looking after the elderly, childcare - these are all dirty, heavy jobs yet women overwhelmingly dominate there. And we know STEM has problems with inclusivity for women, which is a result of your lovely, women-supporting colleagues. They haven’t done enough to change the status-quo.

It would be lovely to look at everything on an individual level wouldn’t it? Unfortunately we can’t, because the violent crimes we see every day are overwhelming carried out by men. You might think that’s a coincidence- but of course, you won’t, because you work in a STEM-related subject (EEE?) and you understand statistics.

Again, I’m not saying all men are evil. I’m saying they’re all, all of them, ambivalent. That’s why society is generally horrified by child abuse, or animal abuse. Women? Not so much.

1 in 5 women have/will experience sexual assault but NAMALT? Those 'some' men must be really busy.

rapecrisis.org.uk/get-informed/about-sexual-violence/statistics-sexual-violence/

[quote thatwouldbeanecumenicalmatter]1 in 5 women have/will experience sexual assault but NAMALT? Those 'some' men must be really busy.

rapecrisis.org.uk/get-informed/about-sexual-violence/statistics-sexual-violence/[/quote]
1 in 5? I don't know a single woman who hasn't been harassed in public, touched up without consent or yelled at from cars. I literally do not know a single woman with no experience of this.

1 in 5? I don't know a single woman who hasn't been harassed in public, touched up without consent or yelled at from cars. I literally do not know a single woman with no experience of this

Me neither, yet they always miraculously appear on anonymous Internet forums and comment on threads about sexual abuse for ‘balance’.

@Spudina

My cousin is one of I suspect hundreds of women who has a tale to tell about John Leslie. The man has cashed in on his small amount of fame by trying to fuck as many women as possible. This reminds me of the Jimmy Saville thing. Initially, a couple of women came forwards. I remember his nephew (standing by that ridiculous, massive grave) saying how they were trying to cash in on his fame. Before you knew it, he was unearthed as Britain’s most prolific sexual predator (which some folk had known all along and never says anything) There are instances where someone’s name being out there will prompt others to come forwards.

So now we're comparing John Leslie to Jimmy Savile.

This doesn’t make any logical sense, Bluntness. Cleaning, looking after the elderly, childcare - these are all dirty, heavy jobs yet women overwhelmingly dominate there. And we know STEM has problems with inclusivity for women, which is a result of your lovely, women-supporting colleagues

Yup. They are just the same as working down a refinery, oh building sites, or on the roads. Totally. Just as dirty. You’re right.

@Bluntness100

This doesn’t make any logical sense, Bluntness. Cleaning, looking after the elderly, childcare - these are all dirty, heavy jobs yet women overwhelmingly dominate there. And we know STEM has problems with inclusivity for women, which is a result of your lovely, women-supporting colleagues

Yup. They are just the same as working down a refinery, oh building sites, or on the roads. Totally. Just as dirty. You’re right.

Less heavy lifting but still pretty dirty, I'd say.

@Bluntness100

This doesn’t make any logical sense, Bluntness. Cleaning, looking after the elderly, childcare - these are all dirty, heavy jobs yet women overwhelmingly dominate there. And we know STEM has problems with inclusivity for women, which is a result of your lovely, women-supporting colleagues

Yup. They are just the same as working down a refinery, oh building sites, or on the roads. Totally. Just as dirty. You’re right.

How many of your colleagues are willing and able to wipe several old bottoms in a day’s work? Clean up sick? Blood? Lift twenty mattresses to turn and make beds?

You know I’m right. The reason women don’t go into building works is absolutely not because they don’t like getting their hands dirty.

@derxa not that wasn’t my point. Maybe a better example is Alex Salmond. Once one women came forward, more followed. I actually do have some sympathy for OPs argument. John Leslie is not getting hired anytime soon because of all the publicity (not that he was massively in demand before). But the man has not helped himself. His behaviour has been sleazy to say the least.

I genuinely have no idea why a bun fight is starting, I can’t change the fact many women don’t apply to work in the industry I’m in, nor will I lie that the men have been anything but professional.

There is nothing to fight about, no right or wrong. It is what it is, thems th facts.

JS - DJ origins, watched by children, not married, lots of rumours, sleazy...

I don't think JL went after children.

I won’t brand all men as evil and I won’t brand all women as saints. Simoly every one is an individual.

No one is branding all men as evil and all women as saints, maybe that hyperbole is contributing to any perceived bun fight.