John Leslie - AIBU to agree that men accused of sexual assault should have anonymity until charged?

[FauxFurCoatAndBigKnickers]

Having 3 sons myself (and a daughter), cases like this are really worrying as people will always think ‘there’s no smoke without fire’.

I don’t understand why John Leslie didn’t sue the arse off that jibbering imbecile Wright or why Jonsson started the witch hunt then refused to speak out. That was what started off all the rest of the allegations and if, as it seems, he is entirely innocent, it is a disgusting travesty and has totally ruined his life.

Non DM link below:
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/john-leslie-trial-not-guilty-a4572176.html%3famp

Legal,

But you cannot demand to search an innocent victim’s house to prove that they did not fake a break in.

Phones are an integral part of most of our lives and unless we ourselves are accused of a crime, it is right that the police have no right to see them and should prosecute on the available evidence.

Treating victims as criminals is wholly inappropriate.

Wow!

That's not true though is it. JL may not have raped but he was trial by media and no actual trial and his life ruined by comments by others. He may or may not have done it!

"Cadent Mon 19-Oct-20 17:30:42
Having 3 sons myself
Teach your sons not to rape and they should be fine."

Any person regardless of crime should get a fair trial. Interestingly he has just been found innocent years later.

'Jurors deliberated for a couple of hours before finding the former Wheel of Fortune host not guilty of a single count of sexual assault on Monday.
Leslie’s former Blue Peter stars Anthea Turner, Diane Louise Jordan, and Yvette Fielding all came forward to support him during the trial, insisting their friend was a “gentleman” who had never behaved inappropriately to women.
“I am a woman, he was always respectful, incredibly respectful, with myself”, Ms Turner told the court.
Leslie’s co-host on This Morning, Fern Britton, also told jurors: “I can confidently say that the allegations that have been made about John do not sound like the man that I know in the slightest.”'

@TiersTiersTiers

Wow!

That's not true though is it. JL may not have raped but he was trial by media and no actual trial and his life ruined by comments by others. He may or may not have done it!

"Cadent Mon 19-Oct-20 17:30:42
Having 3 sons myself
Teach your sons not to rape and they should be fine."

Sure, but if he did it then he got his just desserts and I’m not buying she’d have thrown an innocent man under the bus. Her silence condemned him.

Woman alleges rape, famous one at that. Yep, that is exactly the kind of misogynistic attack that I would expect. And people wonder why women stay silent.

@june2007

BBC3 did a programme on men who had been accused of Rape but not found guilty, it had ruined their lives including leading to suicide. I believe in innocent to prooven guilty. You may think JL is guilty and you may be right but he has not been prooven and it is not up the media to decide that can effect the trial and actually make it harder to get a convictiion.

I wonder how many women and children have killed themselves after being raped? Or have lead damaged lives? Not as many as to cancel out the handful of poor menz

For balance, I worked in a very male dominated industry for years and the attitude to women was disgusting. Just because it's not your experience doesn't mean it doesn't happen

Never said it didn't happen.
For balance, I've worked in male dominated environments where the attitude to women was not disgusting.

Why did Mathew Wright make the mistake?

Why did he leap to that conclusion?

How did he know/Who did he talk to?

My sister knew him post Blue Peter. He was arrogant and sexually entitled. None of the cases come as any surprise.

UJ goes to trial and what?

What evidence is there?

His word against hers.

So she has to reveal intimate details of what happened, have her character torn apart for what?

It's unlikely he's be convicted so what does she gain?

At the moment enough people have heard the allegations against him will suspect it could be true and will be cautious around him. Because she's famous everyone is aware. She doesn't need to go to court.

@StoneofDestiny

For balance, I worked in a very male dominated industry for years and the attitude to women was disgusting. Just because it's not your experience doesn't mean it doesn't happen

Never said it didn't happen.
For balance, I've worked in male dominated environments where the attitude to women was not disgusting.

What is this need you have for ‘balance’ that you have to shoot down every comment? I suspect you’re not as much Team Man as you want to pretend you are, if you’re twitching at the idea that you need to share your experience to ‘balance’ the countless women so far on this thread that have had the opposite. That’s not balance, that’s sticking your head in the sand.

All men could massively reduce the number of rapes, all of them. Every single man could take responsibility for What Men Do, instead of seeing it as women’s problem to solve. They don’t.

The whole abi titmuss thing was also just sleazy as hell. The sex tapes, the lurid tales, the drugs, the drinking, the partying. None of it helped his reputation.

He did nothing to try to rescue his reputation after the allegations ans just continued partying his way on down sleaze street. The two of them acted like they were untouchable ans having a brilliant time as the new pervs on the block.

I have large breasts. I've been hassled since I was a teenager. My daughter is not even a teenager yet. She's starting to get unwanted attention from older men.

I worked in a male dominated industry but not for very long. Guess why?

My ex attempted suicide after ( correctly) being accused of domestic violence ( against me). Its not necessarily a sign of innocence.

@PandemicAtTheDisco

I have large breasts. I've been hassled since I was a teenager. My daughter is not even a teenager yet. She's starting to get unwanted attention from older men.

I worked in a male dominated industry but not for very long. Guess why?

Me too.

I've had rape and death threats online, and the overwhelming response from people was that it was my responsibility to realise the guys obviously didn't mean it and to stop being hysterical.

@duggee I'm so sorry. Very similar happened to my best friend at same age. I hope you are OK.

Ah, Sheba the accusation of "hysterical". The problem is, of course, being female. Hysterical/neuroitic/overreacting... We've all had that and it's toxic.

Interestingly he has just been found innocent years later.

He was found Not Guilty which is not the same as innocent.

Ah, Sheba the accusation of "hysterical". The problem is, of course, being female. Hysterical/neuroitic/overreacting... We've all had that and it's toxic.

I agree. As soon as a woman has an opinion or an emotional response that isn't universally welcomed she's hysterical, getting herself worked up, stressing over nothing, or she's a Karen.

All men could massively reduce the number of rapes, all of them. Every single man could take responsibility for What Men Do, instead of seeing it as women’s problem to solve. They don’t

Because they'd rather jump in with the assurance that Not All Men Are Like That, straight onto the defensive. However there is a marked overlap between the people who say NAMALT and those who say things like "well what did she expect by going back to his house with him" and "enthusiastic consent is too difficult a concept".

Because they'd rather jump in with the assurance that Not All Men Are Like That, straight onto the defensive. However there is a marked overlap between the people who say NAMALT and those who say things like "well what did she expect by going back to his house with him" and "enthusiastic consent is too difficult a concept".

And ‘I worked in a male dominated environment and the men were nothing but kind to me, I don’t even know what sexual harassment is and I don’t recognise anyone else’s experience at all’

And "i don't know anyone who would rape or sexually assault someone" - guess what? They don't go around wearing a badge that says "I'm a big ole rapey rapist" and given the statistics on rape and sexual assault it is likely you are acquainted with at least one person who thinks its okay to push the boundaries of consent, if not breach them altogether.

What is this need you have for ‘balance’ that you have to shoot down every comment? I suspect you’re not as much Team Man as you want to pretend you are, if you’re twitching at the idea that you need to share your experience to ‘balance’ the countless women so far on this thread that have had the opposite. That’s not balance, that’s sticking your head in the sand

I'm answering the comment about 'for balance' which was a one sided comment - so not balanced at all. I'm not shooting down the experience of others, I'm simply not wishing to paint all men as 'a problem', they are not.

@Gancanny

And "i don't know anyone who would rape or sexually assault someone" - guess what? They don't go around wearing a badge that says "I'm a big ole rapey rapist" and given the statistics on rape and sexual assault it is likely you are acquainted with at least one person who thinks its okay to push the boundaries of consent, if not breach them altogether.

I agree, but I also think there’s a gap in understanding at play too. People imagine rapists as some hooded figure in a dark alleyway at night, not your neighbour who nags and guilt trips his wife into sex, or your boss who gets a bit gropey at the Christmas party or your friend from uni who always tries it on when you meet up. And not necessarily rape in itself but an entire culture of ‘ah men! Men and their inability to control their desires! Lovely men who just want to have a good time and the selfish, boring, frigid, humourless women who won’t let them’.