Sick of being told I'm black

[Notjustblackandwhite]

Just this really. On Friday a white friend asked me what I thought of racism in the UK as a black person. I'm mixed race, I'm not black. My mum is white and my father is black Brazilian, but it doesn't seem to matter and I frequently get called black ''for ease'', by white people.

I have nothing against the ''black'' part of my heritage, but I'm at most one or two shades darker than Meghan Markle, and I feel as though an identity is being forced upon me, similarly to how your name might get changed because x and y have decided that your name is too "ethnic" to pronounce. I'm getting more and more worked up over this, and recently someone decided to tell me that I was being racist for being dismissive of being black.

AIBU to think that is really grating and makes me want to punch people sometimes (metaphorically of course)?

YANBU OP. I’ve always wondered why mixed race people tend to be referred to as black when they are as white as they are black. What’s wrong with being called mixed race?

It's a bit ironic that some PPs in this thread are doing exactly what the OP objects to: defining the racial category of others even if those people choose to define themselves differently.

And again, it doesn't have to be either/or. It can be both/and (or all/and). Kamala Harris, who is the Democratic candidate for Vice President in the U.S., calls herself African-American, Indian-American, and Asian-American (her dad is from Jamaica, her mother from India). She has every right to use all these designations.

@Maireas

I agree with the person above, it's a strange thing to ask a person to comment "as a black person" as if they have a hive mind. You all think alike!! I've just seen that Trump rally, and there were African Americans waving placards "blacks for Trump"!

People have totally been trained to think that, though. That there is only one way to think about race, that if you have certain opinions you must be a racist or need to be educated, etc. That they have to accept what racialised people say about race, or what any group says about their own experience.

That only works if you think those groups are pretty united in their opinions, so it makes sense that many people kind of assume that is the case.

I also think a fair number get that impression from the media but are suspicious about it, so they want to ask someone they can at least talk to in person.

I think society in general see mixed race as part of black society

My experience is similar to this. Both of my parents are mixed (nothing black, mostly varieties if Asian!) and no one ever refers to me as mixed race. They usually either take a guess at an Asian country, or go to great lengths to never mention anything related race because they are too scared to ask me. When I lived in the UK I always got the impression that "mixed race" was specifically used to refer to someone who had both black and white heritage, and that it didn't apply to any other races.

I think one of the main issues is why your opinion ‘as a black person’ is more valid than your opinion as a person. It was a well meant question but until we get away from this kind of thinking we won’t progress past identity politics.

@Goosefoot that is nonsense if race is cultural. The OP is British... How does that help her stop people insisting she is something she doesn’t identify with?

Halle Berry, Obama, Thandie Newton, Alicia Keys, Alesha Dixon to name just a few celebrity mixed race people, all of whom I’ve heard refer to themselves as black. I’m not saying that’s how all mixed race people identify, but some are happy to embrace that as the main part of their identity. It’s good to hear a different perspective though.

@DolphinsAndNemesis

It's a bit ironic that some PPs in this thread are doing exactly what the OP objects to: defining the racial category of others even if those people choose to define themselves differently.

And again, it doesn't have to be either/or. It can be both/and (or all/and). Kamala Harris, who is the Democratic candidate for Vice President in the U.S., calls herself African-American, Indian-American, and Asian-American (her dad is from Jamaica, her mother from India). She has every right to use all these designations.

The problem is that identity isn't something that just comes from how we think of ourselves. Race in particular is sticky because it's defined by culture. There are race systems that have a dozen individual categories before you even talk about someone being mixed.

None of those categories are more "true" than the other.

I would imagine when those peopel ask the OP what she thinks, they are wondering what her opinion is as a person who is likely often percieved and treated as black by her local culture. Does she feel like the police target her? Like she has fewer job opportnities? Would she like to see the things that the BLM protesters would like implemented and would they be helpful to someone like her?

Not that she has to answer and she may not see her experience as relevant. But if a lot of people perceive her as black, it's may be as relevant as anyone else's given the treatment of those perceived as black is a bit part of teh question.

Mixed race Individuals are free to define themselves as black, white or mixed race. I think it’s more accurate to define yourself as mixed race seeing as half your DNA came from your mum and half from your dad, but won’t lose any sleep over what others choose to define themselves as.
YANBU OP.

My nephews are mixed race. My sister says they're biracial. Which is what they are being half Irish, half Zambian.

I think the problem stems from people not being very sure what is and isn't racist or acceptable. There are so many different races but people are terrified to call someone black or mixed race in case they offend someone or just get it wrong. It is all to do with how each individual identifies in themselves which to a 3rd party is not always the same

What would you prefer people to consider your race to be?

Humans don't have races. Race theory was debunked years ago. Being 'black' isn't a race it's a skin colour. If OP has light brown skin as described then she isn't black.

None of that invalidates people's sense of identity or their heritage but that is for them to decide.

Sadly despite the fact that race is made up racism is very real. I wish we'd all stop buying into the racist's bullshit and using their language. Having a particular skin colour doesn't define anything about you (except perhaps whether you tan or burn).

[quote SoVeryLost]@Goosefoot that is nonsense if race is cultural. The OP is British... How does that help her stop people insisting she is something she doesn’t identify with?[/quote]
I'm not sure what specifically you think is nonsense.

But I don't think the OP is likely to be successful at stoping people from calling her black. In the UK, people who are non-white of African origin are very much of the time considered black, that is how they define "black" , which is totally different than someone's ethnicity.

I can call myself Irish Canadian, or a member of the Celtic race, or Gemanic, or Gallic, or Mixed European Grill, all of which reflects my cultural experience in terms of my family and their traditions, and reflects my ethnicity. But my culture also still perceives me as white, even though there is not some sort of generic white culture that relates to me, and there are white people who have a far different cultural experience than mine compared to certain non-white people whose cultural references are more similar.
For that matter, if I insisted on not being considered white, I think I'd get a pretty poor response and be told I still have all the advantages of being white whether or not the word itself is very meaningful to me.

@Goosefoot People aren't asking me whether I get targeted or suffer a disadvantage from being classed as black though. They assume I'm black, slap a label on what my life and experiences must have been like as a black person (because they are all a homogeneous collective), and when corrected go "but you're black though". Of course not everyone is that way, but it's happened more often than I'm comfortable with.

Of course in my ideal world race wouldn't be part of every day conversation. What does it matter what colour I am, or where my parents are from? The thing is though that it is constantly part of the conversation and it's brought up to label me at other's convenience. A lot of the time to show how in tune they are with "people like me". It's offensive.

Why do people even have to bring people's skin colour into it at all?

I do think those of us who were raised in schools and nurseries with other children of all races really don't see it as much of an issue at all?
The major urban areas always were a mix of races.

It was only when I went to more rural areas I noticed that there were only white people about.

As for Meghan, I heard she was 'Black' on the radio, {Don't watch much TV} and then upon seeing her thought she wasn't Black at all.

@raddledoldmisanthropist

What would you prefer people to consider your race to be?

Humans don't have races. Race theory was debunked years ago. Being 'black' isn't a race it's a skin colour. If OP has light brown skin as described then she isn't black.

None of that invalidates people's sense of identity or their heritage but that is for them to decide.

Sadly despite the fact that race is made up racism is very real. I wish we'd all stop buying into the racist's bullshit and using their language. Having a particular skin colour doesn't define anything about you (except perhaps whether you tan or burn).

But are we really gong to name each person by their skin colour, that would be kind of crazy wouldn't it? And pointless, it wouldn't tell us anything. And no one saying the OP is black means she is literally black. That would mean large portions of the continent of Africa isn't black. Which wouldn't be bad and after all many Africans in Africa don't call themselves black. As you say, the whole race idea doesn't make much sense and would be better forgotten. But that is why the OP is having a problem I think - she is thinking of race as an ethnicity, so she is of mixed ethnicity, Brazilian and British, but race doesn't work on such a simple plan.

But I don't think the OP is likely to be successful at stoping people from calling her black. In the UK, people who are non-white of African origin are very much of the time considered black, that is how they define "black" , which is totally different than someone's ethnicity.

Sadly, there is a lot of truth to this.

I wonder how many people it would take to just refuse to engage with any assumption about people's 'race' before this nonsense would die out and we could maybe have more useful conversations about the role ethnicity plays in power structures in the UK.

I think it's a nasty Americanism creeping in with the "one drop" stuff.
I think if you count 'one drop' that'd probably be most of us.

YANBU

I suppose it's the equivalent of me being asked my opinion on for example the sugar tax, purely because I'm fat. The fact people have dared correct you @Notjustblackandwhite when you've explained your reasoning is baffling and I think YANBU at all.

[quote Notjustblackandwhite]@Goosefoot People aren't asking me whether I get targeted or suffer a disadvantage from being classed as black though. They assume I'm black, slap a label on what my life and experiences must have been like as a black person (because they are all a homogeneous collective), and when corrected go "but you're black though". Of course not everyone is that way, but it's happened more often than I'm comfortable with.

Of course in my ideal world race wouldn't be part of every day conversation. What does it matter what colour I am, or where my parents are from? The thing is though that it is constantly part of the conversation and it's brought up to label me at other's convenience. A lot of the time to show how in tune they are with "people like me". It's offensive.[/quote]
But they don't really mean your heritage. That's what they mean when they say you are black. They mans a category that is mainly about how you look.
Which maybe you don't think is a thing, which IMO is not a bad thing at all. But at the moment, the cultural narrative is that it is a thing, and that it is a very important serious thing that people have to deal with. It's even become something they are being told that if they are not "down with" they are bad people. And that there are very much right and wrong answers.
It's not these people that are your real problem, it's the simplistic cultural narrative around race. They aren't going to step out of it because they have been told by all the reliable good people that if they disagree they are probably racists.

I don't think YABU. 2 of my children are also half British and half Brazilian (although their father is Latino, not Black) and I totally get what you mean about not being able to define yourself by the part of your heritage that is less familiar to you due to upbringing. My children have never met their father but I used to make a huge effort to bring up them up equally in both cultures - I tried to make them bilingual (didn't work well because I'm not fluent in Portuguese myself), we visited Brazil often, I taught them about Brazilian holidays, history etc. But, as they've grown up (13 and 17 now) they definitely don't feel equally Brazilian and British. They see themselves as fully British because that's what they know, I guess.

I also thought Meghan Markle was white until her critics started getting called out as racist but, as she is American (or Canadian? Not sure, sorry!) it doesn't surprise me if she identifies as Black as many (most?) Americans do adhere to the 'one drop' thing.

I don't think this thread is a bad idea. It's a useful discussion. It's definitely taught me something tonight. I thought race was a biological fact. I didn't know it was a cultural thing and arguably not even a real thing at all!

I'm also mixed race (white British and Middle Eastern), so definitely not white, but also not black - in fact, my DF would be quite bemused by being automatically classed as "black" just because he's not "white", iyswim!

OP, I wonder if part of your ambivalence is because, like me, one of your parents was actually born in another country? I tend to identify as half British, half

But are we really gong to name each person by their skin colour, that would be kind of crazy wouldn't it? And pointless, it wouldn't tell us anything.

Yes. If I need to describe someone that is precisely what I would do. I don't see why it should tell us more about them than their skin colour.

If I can also identify them as part of a particularly distinct ethnic group I might call them South Asian or Orthodox Jewish or Sikh.

And no one saying the OP is black means she is literally black. That would mean large portions of the continent of Africa isn't black.

Black is used routinely as if it does have literal meaning. As if it identifies a group by shared genetics and similar behaviour. This is simply not true and I'm suggesting that those of us who realise it isn't true (plenty seem not to) stop using language in the way racists popularised to describe their ideas. A little more nuance and the racial categories break down.

she is thinking of race as an ethnicity, so she is of mixed ethnicity, Brazilian and British, but race doesn't work on such a simple plan.

Well 'race' works acording to the prejudices of the society defining it, there is no objective meaning.

I'm mixed race
and comments on this I've received in the past, especially when young, were overwhelmingly racist insults,
that I was dirty and should go home

White friends almost never commented on my race or heritage, or asked about it.
Now I live in Germany, friends here sometimes ask about my views on Brexit though - but that's nationality !