Sick of being told I'm black

[Notjustblackandwhite]

Just this really. On Friday a white friend asked me what I thought of racism in the UK as a black person. I'm mixed race, I'm not black. My mum is white and my father is black Brazilian, but it doesn't seem to matter and I frequently get called black ''for ease'', by white people.

I have nothing against the ''black'' part of my heritage, but I'm at most one or two shades darker than Meghan Markle, and I feel as though an identity is being forced upon me, similarly to how your name might get changed because x and y have decided that your name is too "ethnic" to pronounce. I'm getting more and more worked up over this, and recently someone decided to tell me that I was being racist for being dismissive of being black.

AIBU to think that is really grating and makes me want to punch people sometimes (metaphorically of course)?

@QuizzlyBear

I absolutely agree with you, OP. I never understood why people of mixed racial heritage were automatically pigeon-holed as black if they were 50/50.

I looked into it a bit and it seems that it's a hold-over from slavery, when having 'a drop of black blood' meant you were considered automatically black and therefore 'lesser'.

I always refer to someone as mixed race if they don't look obviously black. My own DH is mixed (Middle Eastern / White) and I'd get annoyed when people made assumptions about his heritage. He'd rather people just asked!

This is an example though that shows just how arbitrary it can be - someone of Middle Eastern ethnicity is not necessarily of a different race than someone who is of European ancestry - they'd both be considered Caucasian.

Rachel Dalzeal Is different, her family had never experienced desegregation or anything like that because of the one drop rule.

On the other hand, atha Sorrells (look her up) called herself white with a Native American ancestor, yet she was not allowed to marry anyone white because of one drop rule.
Some of these people who are white get degraded and bullied because of the one drop rule. My ancestors is a mulatto (his family surname on certain location was on plecker’s list ) and some of my dad’s classmates bullied him. But he is white. It’s not the white or his mixed ancestry the problem, it’s people’s view of black. .... so people like Megan or Obama feel they have to whiteness in the back burner and let people know they are proud of their black heritage, it’s something to be proud of.

There was a very interesting video in the Guardian about a group of totally white-looking people, some of whom identified as black because they had some mixed heritage, and others who felt that was totally embarrassing.

What's interesting about that town is that they aren't all mixed at all. Some of them have zero African ancestry, or anything expect European. But the who town was socially considered black by the people in the nearby larger town, because of what you might more accurately call their class designation. They came to see themselves as black and some of their descendants do as well.

If you seen the book mongrel Virginian , you will seen what our problem is. Be warned , the book is very nazi-like I should even point it out and I don’t blame this post get deleted

@Goosefoot

There was a very interesting video in the Guardian about a group of totally white-looking people, some of whom identified as black because they had some mixed heritage, and others who felt that was totally embarrassing.

What's interesting about that town is that they aren't all mixed at all. Some of them have zero African ancestry, or anything expect European. But the who town was socially considered black by the people in the nearby larger town, because of what you might more accurately call their class designation. They came to see themselves as black and some of their descendants do as well.

Meghan baby looks white too, so it is possible their ancestors got push in a location. We have to go by paperwork to see what happened to their ancestors. I have 1% African but my son have none. My mulatto (according to several documents) ancestor is five generations ago from us.

@nighttrains

I get that too OP, one parent is White, the other is Māori and I have been automatically classed as black on official forms in the UK I'm not Black, I'm not White but don't really fit in either. It happens online too, there is Black Mumsnet which obviously isn't a fit for me and the issues facing black people are different but so are the issues facing white people.

And this is precisely why I said I wasn't in favour of MN creating 'Black Mumsnet'

I was declared Racist. Comment deleted

British people in particular are mostly incapable of seeing two heritages in the same person, because it doesn't fit a nice neat box to categorise them for correct treatment as per an ingrained mentality and inner checks of making sure the prejudiced mindset is not admitted out loud. The "other" will always be emphasised, I.e. the 'black' side, or another foreign nationality. It's maddening, it really is! You can be emotionally in tune to both sides of culture, and equally proud of both heritages, and it also doesn't mean that one "half" is lesser of an influence on that person's true identity compared to someone who believes (the fallacy) that they are 100% English.

Totally agree with this ^

I am half English half Italian and had this growing up (in a third country, am now in London where no one pays a blind bit of notice to notions of belonging so we all belong) - it wasn’t nice - to essentially feel as if wherever I went I was an outsider or didn’t quite belong or was labelled one of the other nationalities (despite being linguistically and culturally mostly English).

@NiceGerbil

Black men in the UK are disproportionately likely to die in interactions with the met.

Is that with knowing or not?

Saying well it's just people just erases institutional issues with various groups.

Whilst I understand what you are saying, you could also probably show that 'males between the ages of 18-30 are most likely to die at the hands of the met'. The thing about statistics is it's easy to manipulate them. You could also rework the same statistics to say 'those of the most low income families are most likely to die at the hands of the met' or 'those with precious criminal records are most likely to die at the hands of the met'. The sooner we stop labelling people by the colour of the skin the better.

YANBU in the slightest. And I cannot believe the people are coming on here and trying to dictate to you, a perfect stranger, what you should consider your personal identity to be. It just shows that being ‘woke’ and being the opposite of woke look extremely like each other at the extremes. Both authoritarian and intolerant.

And what a difference if your friend had asked her question without the ‘as a black person’ qualifier!

Whilst I understand what you are saying, you could also probably show that 'males between the ages of 18-30 are most likely to die at the hands of the met'. The thing about statistics is it's easy to manipulate them. You could also rework the same statistics to say 'those of the most low income families are most likely to die at the hands of the met' or 'those with precious criminal records are most likely to die at the hands of the met'. The sooner we stop labelling people by the colour of the skin the better.

I understand that people don't want to miss out where racial discrimination is happening, so it can be addressed, and that's important. But it's not helpful to simply plug it into any question of inequality. I'm not sure about the UK, but in the US economic level is a much stronger indicator of negative interactions with police than race is, and in police shootings too. If you are a well of black man you are a little bit more likely to have a negative interaction with police than a well off white man, though you are unlikely to be shot. If you are poor, white or black, or are in a poor neighbourhood, you are far more likely to be targeted or shot by police, and more poor white people are shot than poor black people.

It's quite difficult to tease apart the extent to which the fact, and also the perception, that black Americans are more likely to be poor comparatively influences the whole equation. But it's pretty undoubtable that if you wanted to really have an effect on shitty policing in the US you would best target their interactions with poor people of any and every race.

"people like Megan or Obama feel they have to whiteness in the back burner "

I didn't know that Megan called herself black. I heard she was listed as Caucasian on actors' lists.

"Rachel Dalzeal Is different, her family had never experienced desegregation or anything like that because of the one drop rule."

Neither did Obama's family. I read that he's descended from slave masters rather than slaves - white mother and African (not African-American) father.
Obviously it's different because he actually has dark skin.

@Goosefoot

There was a very interesting video in the Guardian about a group of totally white-looking people, some of whom identified as black because they had some mixed heritage, and others who felt that was totally embarrassing.

What's interesting about that town is that they aren't all mixed at all. Some of them have zero African ancestry, or anything expect European. But the who town was socially considered black by the people in the nearby larger town, because of what you might more accurately call their class designation. They came to see themselves as black and some of their descendants do as well.

Yes, it's fascinating. I can see how it might not go down well with some black people because they'll feel that these white-looking people have never experienced racism.

@Gwenhwyfar

"Rachel Dalzeal Is different, her family had never experienced desegregation or anything like that because of the one drop rule."

Neither did Obama's family. I read that he's descended from slave masters rather than slaves - white mother and African (not African-American) father.
Obviously it's different because he actually has dark skin.

Plenty of black people in America (rape) as well as white are descendants of people who enslaved people. It’s a lot more common than you think. I don’t know if Obama experience discrimination growing up but I do know he was seven years old when MLK was shot. I am sure as a young child, it must be scary to see someone trying to speak about civil rights for people like himself and only got shot at for it.

@Blueberries0112

Rachel Dalzeal Is different, her family had never experienced desegregation or anything like that because of the one drop rule.

On the other hand, atha Sorrells (look her up) called herself white with a Native American ancestor, yet she was not allowed to marry anyone white because of one drop rule.
Some of these people who are white get degraded and bullied because of the one drop rule. My ancestors is a mulatto (his family surname on certain location was on plecker’s list ) and some of my dad’s classmates bullied him. But he is white. It’s not the white or his mixed ancestry the problem, it’s people’s view of black. .... so people like Megan or Obama feel they have to whiteness in the back burner and let people know they are proud of their black heritage, it’s something to be proud of.

Interesting that Rachel Dolezal 's ancestors didn't experience desegregation or segregation due to the one drop rule, considering she has the same ethnic heritage as Atha Sorrells (Dolezal being a mix of mostly white with a bit of Native American).

Elizabeth Warren also having that heritage but I believe she was unable to claim it due to it being further back in her heritage and therefore not on the Dawes Rolls (IIRC I think you have to be 1 quarter or more to be listed?).

At ha was assumed to be black , not Native American , and so were so many people in that community and some were mixed (both Native American and black) but she looks white. she is actually my grandfather’s 1st cousin.

Her argument was that she is native Americans, not black so therefore she is allowed to be married a white man. But they still refused to believe it.

OP: being labelled like that robs you of your mother's identity. And then being made to feel that the black part of you is more valuable than the white is as offensive as it would be if vice versa. The whole thing is wrong. I'm really sorry and I think unfortunately you just need to try to write any comments off as pure ignorance.

We are ALL a mix of two people. I hate that you have define yourself by skin colour, or be defined by others. F that. I dislike even the 'mixed' category. Personally I would stand up for just being a person, being your unique self. But I know that because of idiots putting you in a box due to your look, it's much harder to do that.

And no of course Meghan doesn't look 'black' and it's pure nonsense to suggest so. Well not now, anyhow. Before she went through the Hollywood mill it was possibly easier to pick up that she had parents who were different colours, but in Suits for example she just looks a bit Hispanic.

I am so sorry, OP, because for their own half-baked political correctness, people create an unfair conflict in your identity. Just try to take no notice of the idiots and be yourself. The things is, you aren't a bit not white and a bit not black. You are fully both. You have the privilege of knowing what it is like to be both. Look down on those losers who don't get that and take no notice.

My DD is a mix of white from me and African/Indian/Portuguese from her Dad. I struggle to be able to tell if she looks mixed race or not because she is just DD to me. But if I try to be objective I guess she does have some facial features (eg lovely naturally plump lips) that might lead you in that direction. She will go darker in the sun quickly but at the moment she is quite white as she has been indoors a lot this year. I really don’t think about it much. I put down Mixed heritage on forms and she is not Black nor White really in my mind. But someone at work asked me if I had spoken to her about the challenges of growing up as a Black person and it totally threw me. I suddenly thought should I have? I have told her about BLM issues that are important to understand but more in terms of being an ally than being someone directly affected. It was a weird moment for me and I genuinely didn’t know what to say.

@Blueberries0112

Her argument was that she is native Americans, not black so therefore she is allowed to be married a white man. But they still refused to believe it.

Sadly this happened a lot in the US.

As I understand it, though, the UK didn't have this one drop rule but wisely allows people to identify as they wish to. If someone Inn the UK has only a drop (like 1/16 or even 1/32) they could identify as mixed if they want to but also of they passed as white (many do. In fact DNA testing has proved many people who believes they were 100%white have been found to have a percentage of sub Saharan african )they could be white and no one would give a crap about the little drop of black they have.

I reckon if we.took DNA.from the whole of mumsnet there would be a fair good few of us whites who turn out to be mixed race generations ago. Whether we would identify then as white or mixed would be up to the individual. Because we live in the UK.

@lunalulu

OP: being labelled like that robs you of your mother's identity. And then being made to feel that the black part of you is more valuable than the white is as offensive as it would be if vice versa. The whole thing is wrong. I'm really sorry and I think unfortunately you just need to try to write any comments off as pure ignorance.

We are ALL a mix of two people. I hate that you have define yourself by skin colour, or be defined by others. F that. I dislike even the 'mixed' category. Personally I would stand up for just being a person, being your unique self. But I know that because of idiots putting you in a box due to your look, it's much harder to do that.

And no of course Meghan doesn't look 'black' and it's pure nonsense to suggest so. Well not now, anyhow. Before she went through the Hollywood mill it was possibly easier to pick up that she had parents who were different colours, but in Suits for example she just looks a bit Hispanic.

I am so sorry, OP, because for their own half-baked political correctness, people create an unfair conflict in your identity. Just try to take no notice of the idiots and be yourself. The things is, you aren't a bit not white and a bit not black. You are fully both. You have the privilege of knowing what it is like to be both. Look down on those losers who don't get that and take no notice.

This, one hundred percent.

I am totally white and definitely dont have a hint of anything non white. Standard celtic looking.

However my gran has always had me wondering. Her parents are white. She looks white. But actually in the proportions of her body and also some of the features of her face, and her skin tone (she is very tanned), it makes me think maybe she has non white ancestry. It's hard to explain, if you saw her you would just see a white woman. But actually when you look more closely you would see what I meant. I just dont understand how her kids and then her grandkids (me and my sister) wouldnt have a single trace of that visible. It's really interesting, I guess we will never find out, as all her family are dead now.

I remember being so surprised when I read that Stephen graham is a quarter jamaican. Probably there are a lot of white people walking around with non white ethnicities in them that they didnt realise they had.

"I guess we will never find out, as all her family are dead now."

You could take the family tree and do more research online. You could also do DNA testing, though I'm not convinced those things are accurate.