Andy Burnham for PM?

[rabbitheadlights]

Exactly that .

He failed to make it as a Labour title contender. There was a lot of talk about his apparently Bambi-like eyelashes though.

The Northern mayors are showing how it needs to be done

Erm, well Joe Anderson is. He might not like the Government, what mayor of Liverpool would, but at least he had the decency to come out and say that Liverpool needs to be in tier 3. Burnham's grandstanding is putting lives at risk

Joe Anderson
I am not rolling over, I am fighting, everyday, fighting against COVID-19 that’s the enemy attacking our City, I am showing leadership by trying to protect lives and livelihoods. Other Cities will be placed in Tier 3 but my concern is this one"

God no. Dreadful man, trying to stoke up a north south divide, cutting off his nose to spite his face. Essentially his stance seems to be if Manchester is going to have to suffer then I want everywhere else to suffer as well. Selfish grandstanding that will lead to higher death rates and increased spread of the disease

Laguna the problem with decommissioning trident is it will result in 10s of thousands of job losses in already deprived, Northern areas...........I do however think they need to look at the costs around it. I know of people working on Trident and contracted welders are on £70 an hour. They're burning through money hiring contractors when that money could be spent elsewhere or differently.

Far too many people on this thread are criticising Burnham on the basis that it would be safer if he were to agree to Tier 3. Yet there's no evidence of this: Boris wanting something doesn't mean shit. There is definitely legitimate criticism of Burnham to be made, but that isn't it.

@CrappleUmble

Far too many people on this thread are criticising Burnham on the basis that it would be safer if he were to agree to Tier 3. Yet there's no evidence of this: Boris wanting something doesn't mean shit. There is definitely legitimate criticism of Burnham to be made, but that isn't it.

What do you mean that there is no evidence that shutting things down safer?! Of course it is as far as Covid is concerned. That has been demonstrated all over the world and here during the spring/summer. The question is whether it is worth the economic cost.

No, there hasn't been any demonstration all over the world that the current Tier 3 plans will be safer than leaving Manchester in Tier 2, nor that the new Tier system will work in the UK at all. If you think there has, please do post it. And as pointed out upthread, SAGE haven't come out in support of this either.

@bellinisurge

I don't like him very much. But I think he's doing a good job. No other fucker is standing up for us.

He's not standing up for you.

He's being a prat. He's got the biggest chip known to mankind on his shoulder.

He's an attention seeking, power hungry idiot!

@lemonsandlimes123

God no. Dreadful man, trying to stoke up a north south divide, cutting off his nose to spite his face. Essentially his stance seems to be if Manchester is going to have to suffer then I want everywhere else to suffer as well. Selfish grandstanding that will lead to higher death rates and increased spread of the disease

Exactly!!

It's a shame people can't see that.

@NellyJames

We’re from the SE but living in Grt Manchester. From talking to lots of friends and family in the SE, it’s become clear to me that many people in the SE see people up here as irresponsible and feckless who have high numbers because they couldn’t behave. It doesn’t seem to have registered that the massive influx of students including thousands from areas of the SE and South May have contributed.

My understanding is that the 18-25 age group is currently where the virus is mostly spreading. Well they’re not all home grown! They’ve arrived up here hoping for a vibrant student experience and they’re not getting it. They’re bored and restless and they know they’re less likely to get seriously ill so they don’t care. The main important difference between the numbers in Liverpool and the numbers in Manchester is the demographic of those numbers. In Liverpool it’s older, more vulnerable people whereas in Manchester it’s not, certainly not to the same extent.

As a large city with a huge student population we take the brunt of that but don’t for one minute think that the problem here is all Mancs who are either too lazy or too stupid to follow the rules. The ignorance and smugness of family and friends I’ve spoken to has astounded me.

Maybe you need better friends?

I live in the SE and NO ONE I know thinks such utter crap.

We do think that allowing university students to return was a GOVT ERROR that should not have been allowed. Online learning should have been imposed - hand on stuff required postponed until spring/summer

We also think the lockdown was lifted too soon, everywhere, but especially in the North who were a bit behind us in the first wave BUT the North would have kicked off if left locked down

We also think there ARE areas who have a denser population & various other contributing factors.

I personally also think the nature of northerners does play a part. There's a lot more 'in & out of others houses' than in the south. It's lovely & something I miss (parents from South Shields & lots of family there).

Whatever way you look at it. There are variables between regions, nations, countries, which is why different 'controls' work in different places. Plus the willingness/ability of those in the position to enforce these things.

Oh, I lve Andy Burnham.

Talk sense in a manner that I can relate to

@nosswith

The government is expecting some of those who are without work because of enforced closures to be paid perhaps only 2/3rds of the minimum wage. Potentially for months.

Andy Burnham is not being unreasonable to object to that. Even if the maximum amount was reduced, people should receive the minimum wage in my view.

Agree. If the Govt are increasing lockdown in some areas more than others then the Government need to provide a better financial package of support for the workers and businesses involved. If not the businesses go under and the deprivation levels in those areas skyrocket and then you have less chance of compliance with the rules as people become increasingly desperate.

I'm glad Burnham is doing his job and pointing this out to the Government. He wants the people he represents to be protected from the associated negative effects of the pandemic as well as from the disease itself.

Have people already forgotten what a wet blanket he was during the Labour leadership election, he was so bad, Corbyn beat him.

Enough said.

NellyJames your friends are the issue, as this is not the view I encounter here in London.

The only people in Manchester (or just outside to be exact) I criticise wear red shirts for 90 minutes with their surname and a number on their back, with the exception of one just awarded an MBE.

@CrappleUmble

No, there hasn't been any demonstration all over the world that the current Tier 3 plans will be safer than leaving Manchester in Tier 2, nor that the new Tier system will work in the UK at all. If you think there has, please do post it. And as pointed out upthread, SAGE haven't come out in support of this either.

So do you think we should wait for a randomised controlled trial assessing whether Tier 3 is safer than Tier 2 as far as Covid is concerned even though it will take a few months if not longer the results. Or shall we just use common sense and extrapolate from the fact that there is there is some transmission in enclosed indoor spaces such as pubs especially when people are drunk. Therefore if they are shut it will have an impact on cases. SAGE aren't saying that there is no evidence that Tier 3 will be better than Tier 2. They are saying that even Tier 3 it won't be good enough and that more needs to be done.

Well for starters I think we shouldn't pretend that Tier 3 is a solution that it's irresponsible to oppose, when that is clearly wrong, or that the government plans are in any way a common sense approach. In particular, they should not be imposed on us with such insufficient financial support. If the Tier 3 approach is to be taken despite expert advice, the support should match what was offered nationally back when it affected people whose votes and views are of more value to central government. To be quite honest I'm actually not sure this is salvageable at all now with this shower in Westminster, they've lost public trust, but it doesn't look like they're going anywhere any time soon.

He’s doing a better job for you at the moment than Sadiq Khan is doing for London. Pushing first of all for us to be put under more restrictions, and then for all areas of London - even those of us with lower rates than some rural areas - to be all lumped in together is not helpful at all!

He and Keir Starmer have both managed to make Boris look good in the last 24 hours. Boris continues to balance health with the economy, refusing to fully lock down low case areas and targeting restrictions The right approach.

Are you for real? I say that as someone who is from the NW, living in the affluent SE and embarrassed to say I voted Tory in the last election. Boris Johnson is an absolute buffoon. He has flip flopped around this pandemic and made it 10 times worse than it needed to be. Look how his family friends in high places Dido Harding has made a pigs arse of test and trace.

I am not loyal to any party but I have to say I am totally impressed with Andy Burnham. He is very passionate and loyal to his city and it doesn't just stop there. He showed loads of empathy to the city of Liverpool as well and stood up for their mayor. I'm glad someone is standing up to Boris and I am totally behind Andy. If he ever runs again I'd happily vote for him.

I hope AndyB shows up Boris massively and the whole of the north turn against him. They took a chance on voting in Boris and he has failed them massively. Come next election and they will be obliterated in the north.

@nosswith, no it’s not what we hear from London based friends either but it really is what we hear from friends and family members in the Home Counties.

@CrappleUmble

Well for starters I think we shouldn't pretend that Tier 3 is a solution that it's irresponsible to oppose, when that is clearly wrong, or that the government plans are in any way a common sense approach. In particular, they should not be imposed on us with such insufficient financial support. If the Tier 3 approach is to be taken despite expert advice, the support should match what was offered nationally back when it affected people whose votes and views are of more value to central government. To be quite honest I'm actually not sure this is salvageable at all now with this shower in Westminster, they've lost public trust, but it doesn't look like they're going anywhere any time soon.

I'm not saying that it's the solution or that it's irresponsible to oppose. I'm on the fence on that .There will be economic consequences and I'm not sure that it will be worth it, particularly when we don't know how long it will last. However, it is rubbish the state that there is no evidence that it will reduce transmission of Covid compared with being in tier 2. Of course it will and no one has stated otherwise including SAGE and Andy Burnham.

He and Keir Starmer have both managed to make Boris look good in the last 24 hours.

The only people to make Boris look better than normal in the last 24hrs are the Russians.

I read in lockdown1 that the virus in the NW was not the same one as in the south. Most of Liverpools and the NW's cases spiralled from the Athletico Madrid Vs Liverpool game and then spread east to Great Manchester.

The virus in the South was brought in mainly by a couple of super spreaders who like Italian skiing holidays. They had the Italian/French strand of Covid.

Having a go at Scousers and Mancs is a bit unfair. You see a minority on the front of the Daily Fail having a laugh, but it is unfair to say they are spreading it. That is the Daily Mail whipping up division. If you want to blame someone for Coronavirus in the NW, blame the greed of people who threw them under a bus by agreeing to let in 3,000 Athletico Madrid fans from Spains Covid ridden capital and letting them mix with 50,000 fans, use public transport and eat and drink in the city.

One of my family members in the NW actually died of Covid in May and the only people I blame for that are the government and the greedy football clubs. The government was warned about fans from high risk Spain and they did nothing.

He's got my vote
Keir was not my choice for leader, I worry the party is moving to the centre right and that's not the Labour party I pay stubs to.
The witch hunt against socialists like Rebecca Lloyd Bailey was the end for me.
I also found out today that Andy fought hard for the Hillsborough families. That was it for me.

@MillieVanilla

He's got my vote Keir was not my choice for leader, I worry the party is moving to the centre right and that's not the Labour party I pay stubs to. The witch hunt against socialists like Rebecca Lloyd Bailey was the end for me. I also found out today that Andy fought hard for the Hillsborough families. That was it for me.

I don't think he's up for anything you can vote for currently.

As for Hillsborough, you might want to do some more reading on that. Maybe pass a bit of the credit to those who campaigned long and hard. Those who were ignored by governments of both parties. And you might want to think about the timings of the final push for justice, the vast majority of which has occurred since 2010 (Labour finally ordered another inquiry in December 2009). Andy Burnham wasnt keen on being heckled and jeered at the 2009 Hillsborough memorial and appeared to have some sort of Damascene moment at that point strangely.

No. Because he hates females who won't declare an adult male can be a woman.