Andy Burnham for PM?

[rabbitheadlights]

Exactly that .

He's also very dismissive of CSE & adult survivors unless it gets him the limelight or he's shamed into it as a pp said earlier. Other than that it's radio silence on the issues Labour in Manchester need to realise this can't be swept back under the rug.

He’s featuring on the evening news in Canada !

He’s featuring on the evening news in Canada !

He will be playing the chippy northerner to North Americas masses.

They've discovered now, via genealogy and that Manc servant on the psychiatrist comedy show, that "ooop north" exists. Rejoicing that their English ancestors weren't some posh sap from a Hollywood movie, but salt of the earth sons of toil who escaped working in't mills and in't mines in Manchestershire. They didnt take to the real deal Gallagher brothers. Burnham can play a slick sanitised version of a northerner for the chat shows. Hes already started experimenting with the casual clobber but expensive glasses. Hahaha there will be no stopping him now!

Meanwhile back in the hood. Yes to the previous posters about how he ignored the CSE gangs and the Staffordshire hospital scandal. Yes he did.

I like him, but as a woman, his take on identity politics leaves me cold.

I am a Labour voter but very relived not to live in Manchester. You couldn’t get it any more wrong than to block a policy that will save lives whilst simultaneously denying hospitality workers top up income.

It's a policy that the government's own advisors have said isn't going to work. This is why Johnson hasn't taken the opportunity to impose Tier 3 on GM over the head of the elected representatives. Burham, the MPs and the council leaders are all united in their opposition but Boris outranks them all combined, and could do it if he wanted. But he doesn't want the evidence to be examined if there's legal action, which GM have threatened.

I'm not totally against him, he's usually OK, but he's being really irresponsible over this issue because cases across the north are still rising rapidly.

Cases in Greater Manchester are dropping, though.

Would that be the national lockdown that came into effect too late for London. The reason that thousands of Londoners are dead? And now deja vu with restrictions coming too late for London again?

It's all been cocked up alright but it sure ain't on a London timetable!

Well certainly it was a fucking inept attempt at the London timetable, you're quite right to point that out. The government made a balls of it. But nonetheless, the point remains here that we simply weren't thought of at all. It was a shite attempt at following a London timetable rather than a shite attempt at following ours. Burnham actually stated that it was too soon too lift the lockdown, and whaddya know, PHE have said the first wave never ended here and it's become endemic.

I dont agree with him. I think it's a dangerous stance. By not agreeing to the closing of the pubs he is putting more lives at risk. It also sets a precedent for even more people refusing to comply.

@AldiAisleofCrap

I am a Labour voter but very relived not to live in Manchester. You couldn’t get it any more wrong than to block a policy that will save lives whilst simultaneously denying hospitality workers top up income.

The deputy CMO told him it wouldn’t work. He isn’t denying top up income to hospitality workers- They would be forced to close and get only 67% or their earnings. Which isn’t enough to live on if you’re on the NMW as it is.

We’re from the SE but living in Grt Manchester. From talking to lots of friends and family in the SE, it’s become clear to me that many people in the SE see people up here as irresponsible and feckless who have high numbers because they couldn’t behave. It doesn’t seem to have registered that the massive influx of students including thousands from areas of the SE and South May have contributed.

My understanding is that the 18-25 age group is currently where the virus is mostly spreading. Well they’re not all home grown! They’ve arrived up here hoping for a vibrant student experience and they’re not getting it. They’re bored and restless and they know they’re less likely to get seriously ill so they don’t care. The main important difference between the numbers in Liverpool and the numbers in Manchester is the demographic of those numbers. In Liverpool it’s older, more vulnerable people whereas in Manchester it’s not, certainly not to the same extent.

As a large city with a huge student population we take the brunt of that but don’t for one minute think that the problem here is all Mancs who are either too lazy or too stupid to follow the rules. The ignorance and smugness of family and friends I’ve spoken to has astounded me.

And some people on this thread too...

Our area is in tier two lockdown from today.

I'm devastated, so many jobs have been lost and I can only see it getting worse. As usual the lowest paid so bar staff, retail workers etc have been hit the most. A minimum of 80% furlough for those people makes absolute sense. I'm talking about the people who are already scraping by on the bare minimum of fuck all and would probably be better off on benefits.

My friend works 22 hours a week (( and was bloody lucky to get that contract )) so earns around £190 per week. She gets a tiny bit of council tax benefit but no housing benefit as far as I'm aware of working tax credit because she doesn't work enough hours (( vicious circle )) or help with prescriptions, eye tests etc. How the hell is anyone meant to pay anything on 67% of that ?

As it stands she'll be ok. A few other friends and I can spare 5 / £10 a week each and we'll be doing so for as long as is needed. But without that what the hell would people in that position do ?

As for well we are well town is dead. People aren't out partying the night away.

We have a high, elderly population and the main employer has thousands of people working together. It also has people coming in from all around the world and the UK on a daily basis. That's where the outbreaks are coming from.........not from feckless northerners too busy dancing on the tables to wash their hands.

Whether he works as a local leader or exercises his ambitions to lead the party in the next general election would be equally as good for the Conservatives I think.

@Viviennemary

Why on earth Labour didnt get rid of Corbyn before he was allowed to decimate the Labour vote is a mystery. A leftie friend tried to explain that it was the Labour rules governing the procedure for ousting the party leader. and the big chiefs wanted Corbyn.

Seeing as the leaders is elected by members, affiliates and registered supporters, I'd say Corbyn got elected because that rank and file wanted him as leader and that your friend doesn't really get how it works.

He was only nominated by MPs because the MPs knew that the membership was (as always) far to the left of the PLP politically and that they'd disenchant a huge swathe of the membership if there wasn't a candidate who represented the views of the left.

I don't think anyone expected him to win, not least the MPs who nominated him.

He is taking a risk but it may work out okay for Manchester. The huge rise in cases is in student areas and that is now coming down. As long as they don't infect the rest of the community it probably won't lead to a similar increase in hospital admissions and deaths because that population is at low risk. A lot of students aren't even displaying symptoms despite living with someone who has had a positive test.

@CrappleUmble

I am a Labour voter but very relived not to live in Manchester. You couldn’t get it any more wrong than to block a policy that will save lives whilst simultaneously denying hospitality workers top up income.

It's a policy that the government's own advisors have said isn't going to work. This is why Johnson hasn't taken the opportunity to impose Tier 3 on GM over the head of the elected representatives. Burham, the MPs and the council leaders are all united in their opposition but Boris outranks them all combined, and could do it if he wanted. But he doesn't want the evidence to be examined if there's legal action, which GM have threatened.

I'm not totally against him, he's usually OK, but he's being really irresponsible over this issue because cases across the north are still rising rapidly.

Cases in Greater Manchester are dropping, though.

Would that be the national lockdown that came into effect too late for London. The reason that thousands of Londoners are dead? And now deja vu with restrictions coming too late for London again?

It's all been cocked up alright but it sure ain't on a London timetable!

Well certainly it was a fucking inept attempt at the London timetable, you're quite right to point that out. The government made a balls of it. But nonetheless, the point remains here that we simply weren't thought of at all. It was a shite attempt at following a London timetable rather than a shite attempt at following ours. Burnham actually stated that it was too soon too lift the lockdown, and whaddya know, PHE have said the first wave never ended here and it's become endemic.

Cases in Greater Manchester are not dropping. They are dropping in Manchester, but not in Bolton, Bury, Wigan, Trafford, Stockport, Salford, Tameside, Rochdale & Oldham.

I thought that over GM as a whole they were going down though? Because Rochdale, Bury, Salford, Bolton and Tameside are stable and the increases in Oldham, Trafford and Stockport are lower combined than the drop in the City of Manchester. The latter being the most populous and having had a particularly dramatic spike over the last couple of weeks.

@CrappleUmble

I thought that over GM as a whole they were going down though? Because Rochdale, Bury, Salford, Bolton and Tameside are stable and the increases in Oldham, Trafford and Stockport are lower combined than the drop in the City of Manchester. The latter being the most populous and having had a particularly dramatic spike over the last couple of weeks.

From yesterday...

@fairfat40

Sorry that’s a very long link.

But he was very dismissive of the whistleblower. I’ve never forgotten that.

That was a really interesting read, thank you. My DH had some interactions with Andy Burnham. As I said above, what motivates him is is having a high profile and importance.

As soon as the High Court verdict came on regarding Hillsborough, I said to DH that Andy Burnham would be all over the media. And sure enough he was. Trying to bask in the hard fought victory which lies firmly in the hands of others.

Ooh blimey didnt see that one, I was looking at the earlier stats from this week. Cheers.

Although either way, the expert evidence is that the Tier 3 proposals won't actually work, and that hasn't been revised in light of the increases in several boroughs. There's nothing responsible about accepting something that will leave constituents unable to pay their bills whilst also not actually tackling covid. There is a reason no elected representative in GM, of any party, is in support of the government proposals.

Good for him.

More people in power need to stand up to our useless government.

There has been little scrutiny from the media and Keir Starmer has just gone along with things for too long...

People are just expected to blindly and meekly accept diktats from a prime minister who is clearly out of its depth and has no long term plan, which is plain wrong.

The Northern mayors are showing how it needs to be done.

@CrappleUmble

Ooh blimey didnt see that one, I was looking at the earlier stats from this week. Cheers.

Although either way, the expert evidence is that the Tier 3 proposals won't actually work, and that hasn't been revised in light of the increases in several boroughs. There's nothing responsible about accepting something that will leave constituents unable to pay their bills whilst also not actually tackling covid. There is a reason no elected representative in GM, of any party, is in support of the government proposals.

That is all very well, but they have no plan. Devolution when they want it...

Where are the decision makers? How are the hospitals going to cope? How many lives will be lost whilst they dither and threaten?

Andy Burnham wants 80 percent furlough and 80 percent of income paid also for the self employed? Who is paying for that 7 months on from the original lockdown

Well I'm in Scotland and vote SNP not Labour but decommissioning Trident would pay for it and more.

The government don't actually have a plan either though steeperthanhell, not really. The Tiers thing with inadequate financial support doesn't qualify. It falls under the heading of we must do something, this is something, therefore we should do it. I could understand arguments of irresponsibility levelled at all sides, but acquiescing with a set of proposals that nobody has any reason to believe will work because an imbecile wants you to is not at all responsible.

The government is expecting some of those who are without work because of enforced closures to be paid perhaps only 2/3rds of the minimum wage. Potentially for months.

Andy Burnham is not being unreasonable to object to that. Even if the maximum amount was reduced, people should receive the minimum wage in my view.

The tories have been advised to have a short national lockdown by SAGE but have refused because they know it’s cheaper to implement a stricter lockdown in the areas with the highest cases. I’ve always been dubious because the vast majority of areas with stricter measures are labour run... In the Bradford district, for example, they removed local lockdown measures in the areas with a Tory MP but kept them in labour run areas. Apologies if this sounds very tin hat but I don’t trust the tories as far as I can throw them.

The track and trace system is ineffective at best, they’ve thrown millions at it for it not to even work. HS2 is an absolute joke and always has been, remove the funding from that and put it into the NHS.

The gov have always said they’re being ‘lead by the science’ but they ignore SAGE time after time. He enforced a national lockdown far too late, thousands of lives could have been saved had he enforced it even a week earlier.