To think I can’t have a happy life with my circumstances

[Beeaaautiful]

I’m 31 married and have been with my husband for 12years.

Our first place we lived together was rented, due to my husbands past relationship (he was only very young) he ended up with a house repossessed which severely impacted his credit rating.
We decided together that we were happy to rent and we would potentially look to buy in the future.

A couple of years later, after the loss of a close friend, I suffered with depression and I left my job and was supported by my husband(then partner) whilst I was out of work for nearly a year.
His salary at the time was okay but we ended up taking out a couple of credit cards for things like holidays and weekends away (I know )

I went back into full time work but instead of prioritising credit cards, we spent our money on other things.
Nights out with friends, weekends away, clothes etc...

We moved from our first place, into a house but weren’t in a position to buy (no deposit) so we rented, this was in 2014.

Over the years we’ve taken out several other credit cards and loans which have been to fund our lifestyle, which we obviously couldn’t afford to live.

In 2016 my husband proposed.
We saved and paid for our wedding.

We knew we wanted to start a family so we decided again to save and have a chunk of money to one side for maternity leave and the cost of things we would need.

I gave birth to our first baby at the start of the year.

My husband is in a much better paid job now and has been there for several years.
I’m not at highly paid, but my salary is ok.

I’m only on SSP which is great, but we’ve been able to manage with our savings.

I’m due back to work in January but I will only be working 3 days a week whilst DC is at a nursery.

I won’t be left with much from my wage after childcare (£200 month left) and it almost seems not worth going to work for.

I’m starting to really feel depressed now at how much per month we are still paying on credit cards and loans.

We will be able to manage but we are easily paying out £700 a month to creditors and none of it is even recent debt. It’s all from years ago.

DC will always come first so any spare money will go towards what he needs.

I’ve gained a bit of weight since my son was born and I haven’t bought myself anything new to cater to my new size so I’m wearing horrible stretchy clothes. I haven’t had my hair cut in months and I feel like I’ve completely let myself go.

I don’t really see a way now how we can ever get out of the debt we’re in and I certainly don’t thing we will ever own a house.

We did apply for a consolidation loan to help us but neither of us were approved.

I’m starting to feel like a failure as a mum and it’s really upsetting me thinking my son won’t get the life he deserves.

I know we have been irresponsible (before DC was born) it sickens me to think how easily we could’ve cleared our debts over the years and we just didn’t.

Are we doomed now? Can we actually live a happy life under these circumstances?

We found getting him bottles of water on our shop cheaper than him stopping off.

And filling a bottle from the tap and taking it with him will be cheaper still.

This is another example of the "paying money must mean it's better" mindset that you also have around charity shop clothes/ebay.

No, but in your OP you said you haven't had your hair cut in months etc etc. But you're spending £50 a year on bottled water, £30 a weekend on what seems to be just food and drink.

Buy a refillable water bottle, pack a picnic, and book yourself a hair cut?

Jesus! It’s £1.59 every other week. Its hardly what got me into debt is it.

But saving lots of £1.59s might be what gets you out of it ...

@Beeaaautiful I am sort of warming to you and sort of getting really frustrated with you. I understand it can be hard on here when people basically start criticising your life. Some people misunderstand what you're trying to say (occasionally almost intentionally, to make a point). And some people can be very rude. But by starting this thread you have basically opened yourself up for that, so you've got to take the rough with the smooth.

For the next 5/10/20 (pick your number) posts of people who reply to you, try just considering their suggestions. I know you have taken some advice on board. But some people will give advice you don't like. Instead of replying with "But I didn't do X/Y/Z " or "This is why we need to do A/B/C" try just saying, even in your head, that's an interesting suggestion. I'll think about it. Try to be a bit more open minded.

The water bottle thing is a good example because clearly it's not going to save you a fortune. But maybe people are suggesting getting a flask instead because it helps with the mindset that you'll need to get into to get out of this debt. So instead of immediately saying 'oh but we need water because X/Y/Z and at least he's not buying coffees' etc, just go - maybe I will get a flask and try refilling. People will get less frustrated and you might pick up some good habits.

Not sure what you are looking for here OP. You have said one minute that you have a problem with spending money and then the next minute you are defending every penny you spend . People are offering suggestions but you don't seem to be willing to take much of it on board. It's pretty simple , you have some money left at the end of each month and you could be paying off more of your debts than the bare minimum . That's never going to be enough . Your baby will never know what you gave him for xmas , whether he wore second hand clothes from his cousins or from a charity shop . He will be about 4 before he can anticipate and look forward to days out. He only cares that he is warm, well fed and loved . The rest is about satisfying your needs

[quote pinkgreenblue]@Beeaaautiful I am sort of warming to you and sort of getting really frustrated with you. I understand it can be hard on here when people basically start criticising your life. Some people misunderstand what you're trying to say (occasionally almost intentionally, to make a point). And some people can be very rude. But by starting this thread you have basically opened yourself up for that, so you've got to take the rough with the smooth.

For the next 5/10/20 (pick your number) posts of people who reply to you, try just considering their suggestions. I know you have taken some advice on board. But some people will give advice you don't like. Instead of replying with "But I didn't do X/Y/Z " or "This is why we need to do A/B/C" try just saying, even in your head, that's an interesting suggestion. I'll think about it. Try to be a bit more open minded.

The water bottle thing is a good example because clearly it's not going to save you a fortune. But maybe people are suggesting getting a flask instead because it helps with the mindset that you'll need to get into to get out of this debt. So instead of immediately saying 'oh but we need water because X/Y/Z and at least he's not buying coffees' etc, just go - maybe I will get a flask and try refilling. People will get less frustrated and you might pick up some good habits.[/quote]
@pinkgreenblue

I agree. I’m grateful for the suggestions and I really am taking them on board.

But it does upset me when I feel like people are jumping on me and making me out to be some entitled snob for spending £1.59 on a multipack of water for my husband to take to work.

@RedskyAtnight

This is another example of the "paying money must mean it's better" mindset that you also have around charity shop clothes/ebay.

I’m not sure where the ebay thing has come from?

I shop on eBay all of the time!

I did say I don’t use charity shops. Absolutely nothing to do with thinking I’m too good or entitled etc.

It’s more of a self esteem issue and the worry of being judged.

Jesus! It’s £1.59 every other week. Its hardly what got me into debt is it.

It's the wasteful attitude to consumption that got you into debt. Not specifically the water. Likewise, the brand new baby clothes, while charity shops are for other people to both donate outgrown baby clothes to and buy them from.

I think I'm done with this thread tbh. You've had so much good advice, both about your finances and about your psychological baggage. The truth is you're not really ready to act on it and until you are nothing will change. Bookmark the thread and come back to it at a later date when you've got over yourself enough for it to be helpful.

Please take this kindly, but I think one of the big things you can do for your DC is to not pass on to them your issues with money.
Second hand clothes are fine; they are good for the planet and for your pocket. Kids only need a few toys and a few clothes; they don’t really appreciate the extra and at baby age you are washing a lot anyway so half a dozen outfits is plenty - in total. You will actually find that lots of people with lots more money than you are a lot less spendy when it comes to their babies - and to various bits of life in general. I do agree with you on experiences, totally, but if money is tight bring your own sandwiches etc - the bought ones aren’t that nice. And yes, your husband’s bottled water is quite cheap, but it’s still say £40 a year - Is that worth it or would he be better off with a cheap refillable bottle?

Who do you think would judge you? Noone would know that your sons clothes are second hand. And even if they did, why do you give a shit what people think? Honestly, if someone said something rude about me buying my daughter second hand clothes, I think I would probably just laugh.

I think it's more that you judge yourself. As you've already said, it may be linked to your upbringing slightly. However my parents also struggled and we wore almost exclusively second hand clothes, played with toys that had often been passed around about 5 different families. My mum shops almost entirely in charity shops, the only thing she doesn't buy there is underwear although she has been known to buy BNWT tights and socks from them!! And I have taken on her slightly frugal mindset and continued the family trend of buying second hand.

Also, I'm not sure what sort of people you mix with, but around where I live it is a very middle class thing to buy second hand stuff. Because people obviously have enough money to be able to buy new if they want to, it's a sort of trendy/eco friendly/sustainable thing to say 'we'd like to ask that sebastian only be gifted second hand toys for his birthday as we don't want his celebrations contributing towards pollution of the environment' Obviously you don't need to be a twat about it like that but I'm just saying, most of the people I know would be more likely to judge you for buying clothes brand new from primark than they would for getting second hand clothes. Maybe try following some #sustainable people on instagram or something to try to get into this vibe?

You can give your DC a fantastic life - lots of love, free play like walks in the woods with leaves rather than germy ball pits, eBay for good condition preloved clothes, ask relatives to give vouchers for days out for birthdays, and visit the local farm instead of the zoo. Cook fakeaways rather than takeaways. It really doesn't have to be about money when they're little and as long as the basics are covered you can
gradually pay off the debts. Don't let it get you down though, money really isn't the be all and end all.

Well done for wanting to change, and for cutting up the credit cards! What you need now is a really clear spreadsheet of what debt you have where, and what the interest rates are. Getting credit card debt onto the lowest rate deal you can is going to be crucial. Pay off the debts with the highest interest rates first. And honestly just stop shopping for clothes and other non-essential stuff- yes your baby will need things as he grows (and actually I've never found charity shops to be that good for baby clothes, I think the value is so low on vests that they just don't sell them) - but if you get out of the habit of buying stuff for yourself and the house it could make a big difference. Even putting a spare £20 a month onto the debt repayments will make a difference over time. Good luck!

If you want to go the whole hog (brace yourself), why don't you post all your monthly outgoings on here? I'm sure people would have suggestions for things you could cut. Ideas might be:

• cancel sky
• drop down to cheaper phone contract if possible/SIM only
• cancel any other subscriptions including gym, netflix, things like hello fresh or beauty boxes
• shop around for house insurance etc which I'm sure other people have mentioned already. Also I did notice that you said your company car only costs you the equivalent of £80 a month in extra tax which is £960 per year - personally, for me, that is more than it costs to run our car as we only pay £300 a year insurance and we certainly don't spend £600+ on MOT and servicing every year. It may be cheaper to get your own used car if you do have any savings (NOT a lease!) If you do decide to keep the company car, remember that if you gave up work you would lose this perk and so you would then presumably need to buy your own car which would cost money. So you can factor that into your 'going back to work' calculations.
• seeing if you can save money on food shopping

There are often things you may think of as necessary expenses that other people may make you realise are actually non-essential luxuries.

Your attitude towards used clothes is awful. Do you realise how bad regular clothes shopping is for the environment?!

I have a lot more money than you do, and buy most of my DC's clothes second hand on ebay. They're usually really good quality because kids only wear their clothes for a short amount of time.

I felt some sympathy for you at the beginning of your post but this has quickly disappeared. You come across as really entitled and as someone with low values. Essentially that is the reason you are unhappy.

You might want to rethink your perspective on life and the things that really matter. We are only on this earth for a short amount of time, after all.

Ultimately I think the money in itself isn’t the biggest problem.

I think you do need to work on yourself esteem and work through your childhood.

I too had a mother who had very strict budgets and can honestly say I never got what I wanted when I wanted it ever.
So I can see where you are coming from in that respect but at some point you have to put this behind you and work on the reality of your situation.
I also wouldn’t buy from charity shops either (however a friend spotted a Chanel suit in the window of one and snapped it up for £30) around where I live the clothes are more than when they were new.
Primark T. Shirts that I buy for £2 new from Primark are marked up for £7.50

I think to a certain extent you are trying to show your mother what a fabulous life you have and you can get it without budgeting.
In reality it is a facade.

You do need to have some form of budgeting because without it, you can see the results.

People are going on about the water because it might seem a drop in the ocean (forgive the pun) but over a year, 2 years, 10 years the money can add up.

Buy 1 or 2 proper metal water bottles and fill them up each morning to take to work.

£1.59 per fortnight is £41.34 per year.
After you have bought the metal bottles it is another £26 to pay off your debt.

It might sound a pittance but paid towards your credit card debt it is £26 not just paid off the debt but £26 that won’t be attracting interest on that debt.

You do have to look at things in minute detail and multiply them out over a year to see how much if you stopped doing something or swapped things around how much you could save.

You need to micro analyse everything you spend money on each week and see where savings can be made.

You have to shop around for what is needed so that when you buy you are getting exactly what you want for the cheapest price.

I think the biggest change of mind set is that this month you said you had £450 disposable income.
In reality you don’t have any disposable income you have £15000 worth of debt and £450 that could have reduced the debt.

I do believe that you need to budget for everything. Even your days out.
The fact that Christmas and day’s out come out of disposable income instead of being budgeted for is one area I do think you need to look at.
Even the £90 extra food etc bills coming out of disposable income instead of budgeted money means the budget isn’t working.

Set an amount for food.

Even draw it out and put it in a jar and when it is gone then it is gone and you can’t get an extra pint of milk till the next week. Equally days out. Decide on say £20 per week and stick to it. Get another jar or write the budget down so you can subtract what you spend

If you really went full in and even moved to a much smaller and cheaper place I would think in 18 months you could be debt free.
And 18months later you could have your own place

MyPersona

You told me to go and get a job.... hmm

No I told you to get back to work because you were whining that it wasn’t worth your while after childcare because you’d only have £200 left.

I think we can be quick to overlook the impact of our family of origin on this kind of thing. We were very working class. Council estate. Many a time I heard my parents argue about money. One of the phrases I remember most is "Don't ask because we can't afford it." Constantly. My mother was raised in poverty, essentially, even more badly off than we were.

My brother and I did t get much but what we got was always new. My mother would not have been seen dead in a charity shop - the shame of being seen to be "in need" would have been terrible for her.

Fast forward 30 years and my finances are way beyond what I could have dreamed. DH and I earn in the high six figures. I buy lots of kids clothes at our local thrift stores and charity shops. Terrific quality stuff! My mother, on the other hand, refused to come with me to root around in our local Goodwill. My cousins, many still living on the same cousin estate - exactly the same. Kids kitted out in new stolen designer clothes. Wouldn't go into Oxfam if their lives depended on it.

It's not snobbishness, it's a very deep-seated sense of shame in being seen as lacking, especially when compared to the people around you. I know I can afford to buy new - so I'm comfortable shopping in charity shops. It's borne out of choice rather than necessity.

I have a lot of compassion for you, OP.

@pinkgreenblue Also I did notice that you said your company car only costs you the equivalent of £80 a month in extra tax which is £960 per year - personally, for me, that is more than it costs to run our car as we only pay £300 a year insurance and we certainly don't spend £600+ on MOT and servicing every year.

£80 a month is actually pretty good value. Your calculations haven’t included the depreciation of car ownership, which as a very rough rule of thumb is about £100 a month. You’ve also left off MOT, servicing, wear and tear (tyres, brakes etc), AA membership etc.

I honestly would rather starve myself for a month than have to put my baby in 2nd hand clothes from a charity shop

What is wrong with you? I'm lucky to be well off, but my DS(3) has had barely anything new because (a) how would he know? and (b) buying second hand saves energy and in a small way helps save the planet.

There's nothing intrinsically better about new vs second hand. You need to sort your head out.

@MaskingForIt I literally mentioned MOT in my post!

Car depreciation does depend on what you buy, but yeah I get that £80 is not terrible value for money. But it’s worth doing the calculations, the same applies to all outgoings.

[quote Beeaaautiful]@Sorberret

Honestly, that’s really unfair of you to say this.

It’s not like I’m buying the most expensive finest bottled water.

It’s £1.59 for 12 bottles.

My husband isn’t office based, he spends most of the time driving to sites.
We found getting him bottles of water on our shop cheaper than him stopping off.

He doesn’t drink hot drinks.

I really don’t think I’m entitled for buying my husband water to take out to work.[/quote]
And this is why you’re in debt. You won’t learn so not sure why you posted.

@Fungster

I think we can be quick to overlook the impact of our family of origin on this kind of thing. We were very working class. Council estate. Many a time I heard my parents argue about money. One of the phrases I remember most is "Don't ask because we can't afford it." Constantly. My mother was raised in poverty, essentially, even more badly off than we were.

My brother and I did t get much but what we got was always new. My mother would not have been seen dead in a charity shop - the shame of being seen to be "in need" would have been terrible for her.

Fast forward 30 years and my finances are way beyond what I could have dreamed. DH and I earn in the high six figures. I buy lots of kids clothes at our local thrift stores and charity shops. Terrific quality stuff! My mother, on the other hand, refused to come with me to root around in our local Goodwill. My cousins, many still living on the same cousin estate - exactly the same. Kids kitted out in new stolen designer clothes. Wouldn't go into Oxfam if their lives depended on it.

It's not snobbishness, it's a very deep-seated sense of shame in being seen as lacking, especially when compared to the people around you. I know I can afford to buy new - so I'm comfortable shopping in charity shops. It's borne out of choice rather than necessity.

I have a lot of compassion for you, OP.

@Fungster

Thank you. I appreciate this.

I also grew up on a council estate. It was the type of place where no one really gets out.
Infact my mum still lives there now, although she does own the house which is the reason she’s stayed for so long.

It was always a fear of mine to become one of the “estate girls”.

I know I’m irresponsible for living beyond my means but I think it’s just always been a way to make myself feel better about my life.
Which I know to a lot of people will come across as really materialistic.

I’ve genuinely never owned a designer label in my life so that’s not my reason I don’t go into charity shops, but I think it’s probably stigma from a council estate background where you go into charity shops when you’re in need and “hard up”.

It’s lovely that people see them as an environmentally friendly place and enjoy shopping in there without any reflection on themselves.
I only wish I had that confined about myself to do the same.

• confidence

Call step change you can discuss everything with them they get the interest frozen and then sort out affordable monthly payments. X

You are young and you have time to get rid of this debt. I speak from experience, I spent my 20's racking up student and store card debt. Then some more over spend with husband. At 30 had a tonne of debt and no assets. Spent 30's sorting finances out. Didn't live like a monk but lived sensibly, understanding finances and within budget. Chipped away at debt, paid debt back first. By just chipping away we cleared it. Over time my spending changed, a budget helped but also an amount of £ each to spend on ourselves, however small. I highly recommend Money Saving Expert for practical help. This is where we started. It might feel like a big mountain to climb but if you do nothing now you'll likely look back when you're 40/50/60 and think 'If only I'd started then'...' You're never too old to get into good financial habits.