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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not consider surrogacy for SIL when I would for my sister?

391 replies

nervousnelly8 · 13/10/2020 21:32

DH's sister has longstanding fertility problems. She has been told surrogacy would be her best option. DH and I were discussing today whether I would consider acting as a surrogate in future (she hasn't asked me directly but has raised it with DH).

I came down pretty firmly on the no side. I'm currently very pregnant with DC2 and I do not enjoy pregnancy. I had bad birth injuries with DC1 and am very apprehensive about going through it again, but know it will be worth it if we get a healthy baby out at the end.

Selfishly, I just don't feel willing to but my body through a pregnancy/birth for SIL, with all the risks that it entails. We're not sure yet if we would like more children after DC2, so that plays a part too.

DH asked if I would be willing to do it for anyone else. And the honest answer was that I would do it for my own sister. I would do anything for my sister. DH understood but was visibly upset, and I now feel like a selfish cow. AIBU?

OP posts:
BackBeatTheWordisOnTheStreet · 14/10/2020 12:17

If I decide to enter into a surrogacy arrangement with a stranger or with someone I know I do so knowing the pressure I'm subjecting myself to. I know the personal dynamics of the relationship and would consider that when making a decision to proceed. I would find it incredibly patronising to be told by someone like you with absolutely no knowledge or expertise at all that I can't make my own decision freely because the emotional implications are too much for me to handle rationally. I would absolutely accept for some people there would be all kinds of emotions involved in surrogacy which they wouldn't want to subject themselves to. This is why they should be free to say no without question. I should also be free to say yes.

TreestumpsAndTrampolines · 14/10/2020 12:21

A baby has no say in being born in general. The same argument was made when IVF was new - what about the poor baby learning it was conceived in a test tube - much better they were never born.

Why is it OK to breed a human specifically to sell or give away? How does that not make humans into commodities?

My eldest just figured out how babies are made and was scandalised, again though, it's entirely different to intentionally creating a life to give away - whether that's as a gift, or goods to be sold.

formerbabe · 14/10/2020 12:22

@BackBeatTheWordisOnTheStreet

If I decide to enter into a surrogacy arrangement with a stranger or with someone I know I do so knowing the pressure I'm subjecting myself to. I know the personal dynamics of the relationship and would consider that when making a decision to proceed. I would find it incredibly patronising to be told by someone like you with absolutely no knowledge or expertise at all that I can't make my own decision freely because the emotional implications are too much for me to handle rationally. I would absolutely accept for some people there would be all kinds of emotions involved in surrogacy which they wouldn't want to subject themselves to. This is why they should be free to say no without question. I should also be free to say yes.
What about motorcycle helmets? Do you think they should be optional or do you think they should be compulsory? I mean chances are you won't have a crash
TreestumpsAndTrampolines · 14/10/2020 12:24

I should also be free to say yes.

This isn't about you. It's about protecting vulnerable women, and about not allowing people to commission babies as you would buy car.

You might be in a position to say no. Plenty of women will be under other pressures. And it's about the baby.

RedToothBrush · 14/10/2020 12:25

@BackBeatTheWordisOnTheStreet

If I decide to enter into a surrogacy arrangement with a stranger or with someone I know I do so knowing the pressure I'm subjecting myself to. I know the personal dynamics of the relationship and would consider that when making a decision to proceed. I would find it incredibly patronising to be told by someone like you with absolutely no knowledge or expertise at all that I can't make my own decision freely because the emotional implications are too much for me to handle rationally. I would absolutely accept for some people there would be all kinds of emotions involved in surrogacy which they wouldn't want to subject themselves to. This is why they should be free to say no without question. I should also be free to say yes.
Its. Not. About. You.

When a doctor is involved in any medical decision they have a duty of care to do no harm and ensure that there is no undue pressure.

I do not believe this is possible to do in surrogacy cases involve people who have an existing relationship or start a such an intimate relationship.

Therefore any doctor carrying out the procedures required is ethically on ground which is highly dubious.

This is to protect anyone who feels they cannot 'deny x the opportunity of being a parent'. Other people's fertility is not the responsibility of anothers to 'fix'.

Auto · 14/10/2020 12:25

Well said BackBeat

RedToothBrush · 14/10/2020 12:27

@BackBeatTheWordisOnTheStreet

If I decide to enter into a surrogacy arrangement with a stranger or with someone I know I do so knowing the pressure I'm subjecting myself to. I know the personal dynamics of the relationship and would consider that when making a decision to proceed. I would find it incredibly patronising to be told by someone like you with absolutely no knowledge or expertise at all that I can't make my own decision freely because the emotional implications are too much for me to handle rationally. I would absolutely accept for some people there would be all kinds of emotions involved in surrogacy which they wouldn't want to subject themselves to. This is why they should be free to say no without question. I should also be free to say yes.
Also, you do not seem to be able to contextualise this without the use of I.

Try putting yourself in other shoes.

BackBeatTheWordisOnTheStreet · 14/10/2020 12:29

@RedToothBrush

Stop saying 'it's not about you' when you're saying I shouldn't be allowed to be a surrogate for someone I know then yes it is about me. Saying it isn't is so clearly daft I'm not sure why you keep writing it.

I can offer to be a surrogate to a family member without their being pressure. In the same way I can offer to donate a kidney. You can not decide for me whether giving someone the chance to become a parent makes my decision about my body worthwhile. It's my body not yours. I get to decide. Just as it's OP's body. She can use her body to be her sister's surrogate and she can not use it for her Sil. That's her decision. Not yours.

SimoneAndGarfunkel · 14/10/2020 12:29

Babies don't even know that they are separate entities from their mother for a number of weeks. I think the idea of deliberately creating a situation where a baby will be taken away from its mother is frankly despicable and should be illegal.

I think OP if I were in your position I would have massively lost my temper. YANBU.

Esmereldapawpatrol · 14/10/2020 12:29

@LightTheFlameThrower

If your DH wants to carry a baby for his sister he is very welcome too. Failing that he can fuck off.
This ^^

Your body and your choice, I would do it an a heartbeat if my own sister needed it but I probably wouldn't for anyone else.

RedToothBrush · 14/10/2020 12:30

[quote BackBeatTheWordisOnTheStreet]@RedToothBrush

Stop saying 'it's not about you' when you're saying I shouldn't be allowed to be a surrogate for someone I know then yes it is about me. Saying it isn't is so clearly daft I'm not sure why you keep writing it.

I can offer to be a surrogate to a family member without their being pressure. In the same way I can offer to donate a kidney. You can not decide for me whether giving someone the chance to become a parent makes my decision about my body worthwhile. It's my body not yours. I get to decide. Just as it's OP's body. She can use her body to be her sister's surrogate and she can not use it for her Sil. That's her decision. Not yours.[/quote]
Why?

Because safeguarding and ethics threaten your world view.

Sorry but tough.

Rampant individualism shits on the vulnerable.

FizzyGreenWater · 14/10/2020 12:31

He asked and I told him the truth

Good.

He was out of line even asking, and waaaay out of line looking 'visibly upset'.

He was lucky to get away with just a blunt answer imo.

Such a tremendously personal thing - and that's before you even get to the ethics around surrogacy in general.

The right thing for him to do would be to let his sister know - if indeed she asked - that no, he would never even raise the question with you unless you yourself raised it first. Anything else is just beyond the pale.

'Visibly upset' would have me absolutely furious tbh. Shame on him.

difficulttod · 14/10/2020 12:31

YANBU. It's your body and why should you do it just because you're related by marriage.

Thinking about it, I have two SILs but one not married. I'd do it for the not married one, but not for the married one.

FizzyGreenWater · 14/10/2020 12:31

And fwiw I am also against surrogacy. It isn't an ok solution to me - it's very black and white.

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 14/10/2020 12:39

I actually think it's verging on twisted and sick. I wouldn't keep someone in my life who thought that was an appropriate thing to ask or hint at.

I feel strongly enough about this situation - about the ethical implications and the safeguarding of women and children and the fact that my body is not for sale - that I would agree. If my DH discussed this with his sister and raised it with me during my pregnancy I'm not at all sure I could come back from that or look at him in the same way again.

However: OP is pregnant and already concerned enough about this issue to post here for advice. I'm not going to suggest 'LTB' is the right response; it may well not be. What I hope OP can take from the replies to this thread is a conviction of her right to say 'no', a reassurance that doing so is in no way 'selfish', and the fact of how grievously wrong her DH's behaviour has been. It's to be hoped he comes to realise this.

AlternativePerspective · 14/10/2020 12:39

To the poster claiming that surrogacy is the same as organ donation, there is one major difference there....

The surrogate is alive, the baby is also alive and growing inside of her, and that baby will then be removed from its mother at birth in order to be sold to the couple who wants it, and yes it is selling babies even if you’re only doing it for [hm] expenses.

Organ donors are, as a rule, dead. They don’t go through anything in order to donate their organs,even though they choose to do so in life, when it comes to the point where their organs can be donated, they’re dead and no longer in a position to be affected by it.

FWIW I don’t like the idea that some relatives are pressured into donating kidneys or a part of a liver either, but selling of organs is illegal, just as selling babies should be.

As for the OP needing to be tactful, why? The DH asked the question. If he didn’t want the answer he shouldn’t have asked. It really is that simple.

And for people stating that “unless you’ve been in a position to not be able to have children you can’t possibly understand,” quite apart from the fact that this line is trotted out in order to make people feel guilty, let’s look at it from another angle. Unless you have actually had children, carried them and given birth to them, you can have absolutely no idea what it’s like to carry a baby and then give it away, even without any complications. It goes both ways you see.

Infertility is sad, but unfortunately sometimes it is life. And just because something can be done, doesn’t mean that it should. Not being able to have children doesn’t entitle anyone to do whatever it takes to have one...

RedToothBrush · 14/10/2020 12:41

This is a subject where individuals doing something by 'free choice' is not a neutral thing that has no affect on others.

Its used as a way to justify surrogacy as being free from questionable ethics.

Hence my point about how the OP would be classed as altruistic.

Its all about manipulation and commodifying children.

Women are reduced to incubators and children 'gifts'.

Thats dehumanising and removes the idea of the need for safeguarding.

formerbabe · 14/10/2020 12:44

Infertility is sad, but unfortunately sometimes it is life

I agree. Biology is shit at times. But that doesn't mean you can go round borrowing other people's reproductive systems.

IcedPurple · 14/10/2020 12:47

You can not decide for me whether giving someone the chance to become a parent makes my decision about my body worthwhile. It's my body not yours. I get to decide.

It's not that simple.

Society and the law decide what people can do with their bodies. This varies from society to society, but all countries enforce restrictions on what people can do with their bodies to some degree. In Britain, you can have an abortion, have sex with any consenting adult, and drink alcohol, but in other countries all of the above are forbidden. However, you cannot use certain drugs, you cannot sell organs and you cannot walk around naked.

Whether it should or should not be legal to gestate and give birth to a child for another woman is a matter of debate, and the different legal approaches around the world reflect this. However, the 'my body my choice' mantra is inane, especially as surrogacy also involves the creation of an entirely new, innocent human being who did not ask to be born.

rorosemary · 14/10/2020 12:48

*Why would that upset anyone?

Because it's a lot easier to hear a definite "No, because it's my body and it's too much of a risk" than "Well I'd take that risk for my own sister, but not for yours"*

I agree. When I was struggling with fertility treatments a friend of mine told me she thought about it but wouldn't want to be a surrogate for me. I never asked because I never wanted a surrobaby, or adopt or whatever. I wanted to carry my own baby and otherwise stay childless. I never told her but it still hurt that she told me she didn't want to do it, even though I never wanted the offer. I know it sounds batshit in my case but it felt like rejection to me. So I can understand the sentiment.

MissBaskinIfYoureNasty · 14/10/2020 12:48

I would actually find that sort of question deeply disturbing. I find surrogacy hugely problematic anyway but even more so if my husband broached it with me. You're not an incubator he can just hire out and babies are not a commodity. Yuck.

billy1966 · 14/10/2020 12:48

Is your husband a bit slow?

Does he think he is married to "rent a womb".....only a right twat of a man, who has absolutely no idea how hard pregnancy/birth and the recovery can be on a woman would suggest this.

Much less be upset at your answer.

You were NOT tackless OP.

Best of luck with your birth.Flowers

81Byerley · 14/10/2020 13:01

YANBU mainly because being a surrogate for a relative or friend is fraught with difficulties along the way. What if you hate the way she brings the child up? etc etc etc.

Auto · 14/10/2020 13:07

If it's 'too dangerous' for a woman with children to offer to be a surrogate, why not also ban mothers from riding motorcycles, bungee jumping for charity, mountaineering, being firefighters/miners/lion tamers, etc? In fact how about they all venture no further than the kitchen sink?Hmm

PreggoFeminist86 · 14/10/2020 13:21

I would be a surrogate for my sister (who is infertile due to Cancer treatment), but absolutely nobody else. I wouldn't even consider doing it for anyone else, including my ex-SIL who I absolutely adore.

It's pretty disturbing that your DH & SIL are discussing it without you, and that she broached it with your DH before even talking to you about it. DH adding pressure/guilt by becoming 'visibly upset' by your decision is disgusting, frankly. You're not a bloody incubator & I would be very upset at his lack of understanding/concern for both your health & your bodily autonomy.