Please help with this life changing decision

[TravelDrift10]

Hi Mn, i did post previously but am struggling with this.

We have the option to move back to a country that we previously lived in. We moved back to our home country when we had dc and thought it was best to raise them around a good support system. We moved back and that support fell through in a bad way. We have also experienced so much unhappiness here but im wondering if i am allowing these issues to cloud my thinking.

Home country is a developing country.
The biggest PRO is our financial situation. We were able to save alot in the UK, and have purchased our dream home outright. DC(4,2) are going to the best private schools. And we have the best private medical care. Dc school is a 2 minute walk and DH is a 5 minute drive from work. I am a sahm with a live in housekeeper. We are financially free and could retire right now (both 40). My dc and future gc will be financially set up. It sounds absolutely crazy to leave this situation.

BUT

The country is crime ridden. We are able to afford the very best of security and convenience but I will never go anywhere alone with my dc. For most people I know that live here, they go about life because they havent had another experience to compare to. I lived in the other country, and felt safe. I can take a walk to the shop. I wouldnt dream of doing that here. As a female, I wouldnt even dream of going out at night.

Secondly, since we have moved back we have lost so much. Friendships, relationships all non existent. It seems us moving away and coming back to suddenly afford a very good lifestyle created alot of resentment amongst those closest to us.
We also lost a child late into my pregnancy and the reactions from our closest people just broke us.
I feel like there isnt anywhere to turn here, but i dont want to partly base this decision on people who have hurt us.

For us to move back, we would have to give up most of our financial security to start again. And my dc and I would be going over on my dh visa, should anything happen to him we would have to leave so that is a huge risk as well.

Would you give up so much and take this massive risk for a fresh and hope for the best or just stick it out

@GoldfishParade

Why wouldnt you move to canada with a daughter?!

I think they mean how the identity of women is being eroded in Canada. Its quite horrible frankly.

I am a remainer through and through but even I can’t make the leap that Brexit will bring about SA crime rates in England! Steady on...

@Carminabubu and @GoldfishParade - yes, that was my take on it too. The aggressive TRA movement in Canada is well ahead of the UK in terms of erosion of women's rights and safe spaces.

It's not a dream home if you live in fear of being stabbed on your doorstep.

I would definitely leave.

I met a lovely lady in a cafe once who had come to live in England from JHB. Her adult son had been murdered as he protected his girlfriend from being gang raped, they turned on him and beat him to death. I naively asked “what did the police do about it?” And she gave a hollow laugh and said the police were completely corrupt and wouldn’t do anything. But I’m sure you know all that.

Not the kind of place I would want me or my children to live. Come back.

SA is your problem, but the UK isn’t your best solution. This is why you’re finding it such a tough decision.

I think your head and heart are so muddled at the moment that you can’t work out your personal priorities. There’s no equivalence between SA and the UK.

Introspect. Work through all your issues and problems (safety, how to raise your children, betrayal by old support network, feelings of regret/sunken costs fallacy, thoughts and feelings about the UK, your identity and homeland, all of it). You may find the decision a whole lot easier once you’ve thought through all these things carefully. Don’t jump to running away to another country, that might not be what gives you most worry.

I would come back. You have a young family and despite the privileges it sounds almost like house arrest ahead of you. You can't know that the family are set up for life either really, surely? I know people who grew up in SAN in similar circs to yours, and decamped to the UK in their 20s where they face the same financial struggles here as others.

I am very sorry for your loss I hope if you do go ahead with coming back it goes well and you can feel freer and more supported here.

SA not SAN

Hi OP. I'm currently in a really similar situation to you. I'm from a developing country where I currently live, but did live in Europe for some years before I came home and had kids. We are rich in our country because I still earn in Euros and the economy here is bad, so we are VERY well off here.

BUT, we are moving back to Europe next year. One of our reasons is that okay, we will have less money in real terms, but we will not have to pay school, health and security fees for the next 20+ years. That will save us a lot of money. Add up how much you spend per month, per year, for your health insurance and your kids' schools. Over 14 years of schooling it's a LOT. So that kind of balances it out a bit.

But the biggest reason is, I want to give my kids a chance to live a more carefree life. Where houses don't have 10 ft fences and electric wire or razor wire at the top. Where you don't have to run red lights at night to avoid getting carjacked, etc.. Like you said, to the people who live in our countries, that's all normal, everyday life, but I don't want it to be normal for my kids! To me that's worth living in a smaller house and having less spare cash to spend each month. I don't want them to have those worries all their lives.

SA is your problem, but the UK isn’t your best solution. This is why you’re finding it such a tough decision

Also I agree with this. Obviously it all depends on your visa and work/job opportunity situations, but there are cheaper (and IMO nicer) countries to live in in Europe that would offer you a good compromise between SA and the UK. And learning a new language is fun!

As a Saffa who has been in the UK for 20 years - I would come back OP. Seriously, and in JHB? Probably the worst place in SA. My few remaining family members live in Pretoria and I fear for them every day.

I live in NZ, and there is a large SA immigrant community in Auckland. I have a number of them in my work and social circles, and it has really been striking to me how many of the, have talked about how they didn’t realise how much fear they constantly lived in, and how much that affected how they lived their lives, until they came to the safety of NZ. They talk about how they only realised how much they were tensed for trouble the whole time when they realised they were finally ‘untensing’ after being here for a few months, and getting used to the fact that they weren’t going to get carjacked at the lights or have their home invaded if they opened a window. Of course, the cost of living here is very high in comparison to SA, but I literally do not know one person who isn’t happier being poorer but freer now they’ve left SA.

And I know you are beating yourself up over leaving the UK before getting settled status, but do remind yourself that we take our decisions based on our best judgement at the time. And the sooner you restart the clock of residency somewhere, the sooner you’ll have the security of a visa/right to remain. A few years passes before you know it!

@TravelDrift10 - I wouldn't dream of staying where you are. Sometimes losses make us see what's most important, and it sounds like that's the juncture you are at. I'm sorry for all you've been through.

To me, I'd rather be in a small terrace with my children in a safe community, than have lots of money and luxuries but worry about their future. I wouldn't be proud of having excess, but of making choices that put my family first and working for what I have. All that's to say, I think while it's a massive upheaval, you'll feel far more settled and happy once you have a home where you can go out for a walk, and feel free. Things like best private schools and housekeepers, pail in comparison to freedom and safety.

I won't go into details but a dear friend's sibling made a move like you, though it wasn't their home country, and they experienced a horrific event due to serious crime where they were targeted as wealthy people. When I think of them I wish that little bungalow they'd saved and saved for in the UK had felt like enough, and interestingly their children returned to the UK and are very happy in houses of all sizes, all a fraction of what they had in the other country.

OP I am in SA so I can relate. I have a British passport but born and raised in SA. I spent 6 years there and got completely bogged down with the weather and hectic life building a career in London. I left to cone back to SA for a break and happened to meet my husband who is so firmly entrenched in this country with his own business and family. So I have been here now for 13 years. My immediate family all live in the UK.

People assume you’re going to get stabbed and robbed on every street corner and although crime is a huge problem you and I both know that by living in a bubble we largely escape it. My husband and I are also financially well off and have maids and private schools for our kids.

I really feel your pain. While the world is largely in an uncomfortable place, South Africa has some unique problems and they are seeming to cone to a head at the moment. It’s pretty depressing and unsettling living here. The racial tensions are rising, the poor are restless given the corruption by the very government they have put in power.

I worry mostly about the future our children are going to have. I have step children by the way, none of my own. And while I can offer my husband a spousal visa based on my citizenship.. I cannot offer his kids anyway out of here and while we could leave if we wanted to we just couldn’t really and leave his kids behind.

we speak everyday of buying a little business in the Uk and living a much simpler life but it’s really just a dream. My husband lives for his work and his farms (we don’t live on the farms, we lived in a gated estate).

When we visit the UK we always cone away with our glum it seems in comparison to life in SA. There is a weird ‘fire’ here that keeps us on our toes... But combined with an uneasiness about life here.

Anyway I haven’t read all the responses and my response is probably a jumbled bag of thoughts. I could write forever on this topic because it’s something I debate in my head over and over again. But I just wanted to say I understand how complex it is.

I wanted to also add... could you not move somewhere else in SA? There are plenty of people semi-grating to friendlier places than JHB. I live in the midlands but we often consider somewhere on the garden route.
There isn’t anywhere here that is exempt from crime or the apparent bleakness of the future but there are certainly happier places than JHB.

And for what It is worth, you are not alone. There are so many people who are just waiting for the borders to officially open up again so that they can make the move. If you are considering going then my advice would be to do it sooner rather than later. The developed world is going to become more and more atttractive to people looking to emigrate and those countries are probably going to have to look at tightening up their policies on immigration so if you can get in now and it’s the route you choose to go, then make haste.

So many thoughts... if you were to move back I would stay away from London and typically SA enclaves like Wimbledon. Whilst it is ‘nice’ to have that familiarity around you it also prevents you from truly integrating into a place you want to be your forever home. I largely blame my unhappiness in the UK on not making any British friends and not getting involved in British life.