Please help with this life changing decision

[TravelDrift10]

Hi Mn, i did post previously but am struggling with this.

We have the option to move back to a country that we previously lived in. We moved back to our home country when we had dc and thought it was best to raise them around a good support system. We moved back and that support fell through in a bad way. We have also experienced so much unhappiness here but im wondering if i am allowing these issues to cloud my thinking.

Home country is a developing country.
The biggest PRO is our financial situation. We were able to save alot in the UK, and have purchased our dream home outright. DC(4,2) are going to the best private schools. And we have the best private medical care. Dc school is a 2 minute walk and DH is a 5 minute drive from work. I am a sahm with a live in housekeeper. We are financially free and could retire right now (both 40). My dc and future gc will be financially set up. It sounds absolutely crazy to leave this situation.

BUT

The country is crime ridden. We are able to afford the very best of security and convenience but I will never go anywhere alone with my dc. For most people I know that live here, they go about life because they havent had another experience to compare to. I lived in the other country, and felt safe. I can take a walk to the shop. I wouldnt dream of doing that here. As a female, I wouldnt even dream of going out at night.

Secondly, since we have moved back we have lost so much. Friendships, relationships all non existent. It seems us moving away and coming back to suddenly afford a very good lifestyle created alot of resentment amongst those closest to us.
We also lost a child late into my pregnancy and the reactions from our closest people just broke us.
I feel like there isnt anywhere to turn here, but i dont want to partly base this decision on people who have hurt us.

For us to move back, we would have to give up most of our financial security to start again. And my dc and I would be going over on my dh visa, should anything happen to him we would have to leave so that is a huge risk as well.

Would you give up so much and take this massive risk for a fresh and hope for the best or just stick it out

Yes @rashalert!!!

I tried to make this point earlier in the thread. I am not pro Brexit but some people are just desperate to get in a point at any opportunity!

The OP seems to be pretty sure her husband will eat a visa, so pretty likely his job is in demand regardless of the "hostile climate" etc.

Oops - get a visa!! Don't eat it!

@2bazookas

Bear in mind that in UK, covid is about to make millions of people unemployed; and we're two months away from a no-deal Brexit whose economic effects are unknown. In other words, there is high unemployment, high social stress; UK is in a period of unprecedented change so is not the UK you left several years ago. UK immigration regulations are also changing fast .

These are both things to bear in mind but depending on what OP and her DH could work as over here then it may be better them risking starting again here.

Immigration rules do change all the time yes, but depending on how much time, patience and what they ultimately want out of this - and it helps a lot if her DH was born here then I'd say to get a very good immigration lawyer and be patient. I know of two already if OP wants to PM me.

Come back to England. If you are in London there is a huge South African community, at least half of the parents in my DC’s class are South African. All say that their safety far outweighs the reduction in standard of living although to be fair they are all comfortably off. Apart from their constant complaints about the weather they are all here to stay.

Friend comes from a country with very high crime rate.

She thinks London is so safe. It took her a bit of time to relax, be able to drive with her window down and not be nervous someone was going to grab her handbag as she walked down the street.

That peace of mind is incredible and not to be under estimated.

@Silvercatowner

I'd consider Canada over the UK at the moment. The shit show we have at the moment is going to get so much worse when a no deal Brexit is added to the mix.

This too - I knew two SA people who moved to Canada and Australia but a few years ago - and in fact in one case - parents got divorced (older) and one went to Canada the other came to Australia!

I also know a few people who lived in Canada - e.g. emigrating. Winters are or can be tough, snow etc - don't discount that. Also depending on what work you do or where you go don't count on being able to get work easily. My friend is a dental nurse and got work quite easily in Canada, her DH works in forestry, the same, another friend who's Canadian and a social worker got work as a social worker. Also - you have to be the type of person who is able like OP seems able to do to up sticks and make new friends. I couldn't do this easily so wouldn't do this.

Australia - good support network needed too - again similar to Canada - look at transferable skills. What I hear from friends in Australia (and Canada) is that it's so hard and can be expensive to travel from one city to another - nearby yes but half way or other side of country can take time and be expensive. Also depends - some friends of my parents - the DH has tunnel vision and is totally blind and also deaf now and eventually he and his DW moved a few hundred miles to a city where his DBs lived (SAs funnily enough) - the support network just wasn't there for his DW who doesn't have much family but lots of friends where they used to live.

@Sophoa

Come back to England. If you are in London there is a huge South African community, at least half of the parents in my DC’s class are South African. All say that their safety far outweighs the reduction in standard of living although to be fair they are all comfortably off. Apart from their constant complaints about the weather they are all here to stay.

Agreed - not sure where your friend is but where I worked in Wimbledon we had a company ran by SAs upstairs from us - a lettings agency and lots of the families and food shops are SA.

I'd assume the areas around there are hugely popular with SA people too.

I think you have to accept that both options are imperfect. Then make a choice and commit to it - there will be ups and downs and you need to take long view but no regrets.

Thank you all SO much for your replies. It has given me so much food for thought and has addressed alot of what was throwing me in turmoil. Im going to go through this thread with DH tonight once dc are asleep.

SA is a really beautiful place , the people are just so warm and its a country with many opportunities. We have come on the map for some really outstanding achievements. Unfortunately the corruption, crime and building unrest is destroying this country and its going to be worse.

We chose the UK again as my dh has the opportunity to bring us back sooner rather than later. For other countries we are looking at 2 years a minimum to try to get over. We have no ancestral ties to any other country so this is it for us to get out.

My fear was being so dependent on DH visa. Whether I worked or not, It is linked to DH. But we just need to put plans in place for all possibilities.

DH and I are going to sit down and really work through this. I really appreciate each and every reply.

Good luck op

Yes good luck and let us know what you decide and all the very best

Are you worried about the possibility of your DH dying or divorce? If it’s death, get a significant amount of life insurance for him. If it’s divorce, ensure you continue to have assets in both countries in your name.

I've lived in several different countries, now back in the UK. Edgy places can be fun when you're young, but I wouldn't want to live like that with children. I realise the edgy place was your original home country, and you have family there, which must add to the economic pull to stay there.

But I would never now want to live, or bring up children, in a violent country or culture. You've also mentioned a weak economy and poor long-term prospects. God knows we're in a mess over here at present, but this is basically a comfortable, relatively affluent and law-abiding society. (Believe me, I have seen very much worse.)

I would come back, get a job if possible, and do everything you can to get the right to stay.

Im in a slightly similar situation. Currently live in my partner's latin american country. We have no kids but lots of animals. We are leaving here because we cant take the crime, danger, corruption and harrasment (for me) anymore. When i first moved here I loved it but we have really seen a deterioration in safety and increase in violence. What shocks me is the acceptance and casual attitude to awful crimes when theyre reported on the news. "10 burnt bodies found on the side of the highway... Anyway here are the sport results!"
We also are "rich" here comparitively (no way near the same level you describe, but very comfortable) . We have great jobs, giving us disposable income, a nice car and home which we were able to buy not rent.
But its not worth it. We want to have a baby in a few years and i cant imagine raising them here, especially if theyre a girl and especially if they look more like me than their dad (i am very obviously not from here and stick out, attracting more negative attention) I also worry if the child turned out to be gay, trans etc or disabled.. The culture here is homofobic and discriminatory (not that there arent homofobes in the UK, but its generally so much more tolerant).

We probably will be taking a big cut in terms of money and lifestyle at least at first... But you cant put a price on peace of mind. i just want to feel safe, secure etc. I want to be able to just go walking in rural areas through fields and woods again, if you did that here they'd never find your body!
I know the uk isnt perfect, but at least if something bad happens,the police are on your side, not trying to get bribes from you.

You talk about settlement status so assume DH is EU? You'd have to move back before end of this year or things will be much more difficult. Note that you may not have lost the old 4 years - it depends on how long you were gone. It probably makes sense to contact an immigration lawyer.

I'd choose freedom and safety over living a wealthy lifestyle. But then I'd also have no wish to retire at 40.

Is your country somewhere you'd want your children to be teenagers and young adults? The connections they make growing up might affect where they later live

One other thought, the window closes as children get older. You can build a life almost anywhere when they are small, because children are happy as long as they are with their parents - but there will be a time when they will need to settle, won't wish to move and need to sit exams etc.

You have a window of time now to get this right for all of you.

The UK although transitioning now with brexit, this is likely to be resolved in the very near future - the UK can certainly offer you and your children a safe, comfortable and settled life regardless. Personally I would move back whilst you still can, because Brexit if anything is likely to see the tightening up people moving and living here, and not the reverse. In time you can holiday in SA and have the best of both worlds. I would put in some thought as to where you will live. It is certainly the case that there are some very beautiful, family friendly villages and towns that would suit you all. Give lots of thought to exact location if you can around work commutes etc. This was the key to us feeling happy here. A good crowd of friends, a super area can make all the difference.

Personally I would be most worried about my children's future by staying, if it is now as unsafe as you describe, then there is no way I would want to live there. There will be a money/brain drain after a while, as everyone that can, will leave. Good luck and all the best!

As well as my other post, I wanted to say I do understand your worry about immigration. My partner will have the same thing. We're going to get a spouse visa for him so he is esentially making himself vulnerable and putting all his eggs in the basket of our relationship which I do appreciate and have assured him itll be worth it for us both.
He will have to get used to using english all day everyday and endure the culture shock, bad weather etc...
But your english is clearly perfect and you have lived in the UK before.
If you are worried about the financial requirements for him to bring you across, speak to an immigration lawyer because there are actually loads of options with savings, assets, salary etc.
On a spouse visa you can work and drive from day 1.

We will miss our private healthcare and certain things here but seeing the UK through my partners eyes has solidified the decision. He was AMAZED we could take public transport late at night and that I could walk back from a friends house alone in the dark wearing shorts...

When my DH moved from SA 15 years ago, he slept (in north London) with a knife next to his bed...took be a while to get him out of that habit! And it is worse now than it was then. I fear every day for my parents but there is literally nothing I can do about it...my mother will never leave...I belive if I was to somehow be able to make her leave her home she would quickly die...

consider the North East, it is a fabulous place to live, quality of life and cost of living is cheaper and young woman regularly go "out on the town" in skimpy clothes and very high heels in no danger apart from the possibility of frostbite or a broken ankle.

Funny and true, motheroftwoboys! Beautiful scenery, friendly people too.

OP I understand so much of what your are going through! DH and I are actually about to move back to my 3rd world country for 2 years to get help with our baby while he builds a new business. We couldn't afford to stay where we are, and his new business means we can't stay anyways due to visa reasons.

My country has already been mention on here as somewhere not to live because of safety/security reasons. But I have family there and we will have a support network, not sure about making friends but family for sure will be around and supportive. That's a very different thing to what you're describing. We also plan to stay for a fix time period and leave before DS starts school. Hopefully covid will get better in 2021 and the economies of the world will recover more swiftly.

I wish you all the best!

Do you have a middle ground that you can think of? May be you can come to England, get the passport in five years and then move to Mid East? You will get better security than England.

@Malahaha

I'd consider Canada over the UK at the moment.

I'd never move to Canada with a daughter. Some people will know what I mean...

Absolutely agree.

Why wouldnt you move to canada with a daughter?!

@Malahaha

I'd consider Canada over the UK at the moment.

I'd never move to Canada with a daughter. Some people will know what I mean...

What do you mean by this?