Please help with this life changing decision

[TravelDrift10]

Hi Mn, i did post previously but am struggling with this.

We have the option to move back to a country that we previously lived in. We moved back to our home country when we had dc and thought it was best to raise them around a good support system. We moved back and that support fell through in a bad way. We have also experienced so much unhappiness here but im wondering if i am allowing these issues to cloud my thinking.

Home country is a developing country.
The biggest PRO is our financial situation. We were able to save alot in the UK, and have purchased our dream home outright. DC(4,2) are going to the best private schools. And we have the best private medical care. Dc school is a 2 minute walk and DH is a 5 minute drive from work. I am a sahm with a live in housekeeper. We are financially free and could retire right now (both 40). My dc and future gc will be financially set up. It sounds absolutely crazy to leave this situation.

BUT

The country is crime ridden. We are able to afford the very best of security and convenience but I will never go anywhere alone with my dc. For most people I know that live here, they go about life because they havent had another experience to compare to. I lived in the other country, and felt safe. I can take a walk to the shop. I wouldnt dream of doing that here. As a female, I wouldnt even dream of going out at night.

Secondly, since we have moved back we have lost so much. Friendships, relationships all non existent. It seems us moving away and coming back to suddenly afford a very good lifestyle created alot of resentment amongst those closest to us.
We also lost a child late into my pregnancy and the reactions from our closest people just broke us.
I feel like there isnt anywhere to turn here, but i dont want to partly base this decision on people who have hurt us.

For us to move back, we would have to give up most of our financial security to start again. And my dc and I would be going over on my dh visa, should anything happen to him we would have to leave so that is a huge risk as well.

Would you give up so much and take this massive risk for a fresh and hope for the best or just stick it out

I read up to crime ridden and thought stay here.

Dh is from SA and has been living in the uk for almost 20 years. He left there when he was 18 and never went back. He goes back every year to visit his parents and family but me and dc have never been. Even his parents tell us not to bring the dc over because of how bad it is there. They’re originally from Joberg but now live in Cape Town. They actually used to live in a ‘nice’ area, but that’s gone down hill recently, especially since Corona. The crimes are getting more horrific as people are getting more desperate. A family on their road had a live-in helper, who had been with them for almost 40 years, who sold them out and the hole family was brutally murdered. Sadly, this isn’t uncommon.

Honestly, all the money in the world couldn’t make me visit, let alone live, in SA. The government is massively corrupt. The education and work opportunity there isn’t comparable with the uk so I would definitely move back as soon as you can.

I find that in those economically corrupt countries... the social support network is there as a replacement for the lack of economic security by the government. It’s improvising for safety and security so the kids can grow up feelinf safe and sound.. it requires adults making choices and decisions that compromise their comfort and own safety so the vulnerable can have better chances.

Your lifestyle is an eyesore to those networks because they’re havi to make daily decisions to steer away from that to prioritize those more vulnerable in the community.. and they believe it’s for the best.

They might appear non materialistic and chauvinistic but in reality and logically it’s because they made choices to compromise their financial progress for the security that you very much have already.

They probably don’t see it as you’re entitled for the fruits of their sacrifices because you have your own way of obtaining security.

It probably comes acrosss as flaunting your lifestyle and so on.

You cannot carry the attitude of a first world country and expect support from a developing country community.

From a point of view of those communities is that you must prioritize others over your luxuries and so your luxuries in order to be a member. It’s unspoken rules of the game of how to be entitled for support.

They probably prefer if you go back to the country you managed to make ur way up in.. and support them financially every now and then .. that’s how they would appreciate the recirprovagkon for their undying support during your holidays and visits..

It sounds bad but it isn’t. It’s survival..

You are looking at those community with rose tinted glasses..

As a child, you grew up feelinf supported and loved by everyone because you were vulnerable and needddd that support.

As an adult, you are now expected to do all that giving. And your kids aren’t vulnerable so they wouldn’t experience the same unmaterialistic free community support “raised by a village”.

If I were you, I would look for a job. And move back to the first world country. Give my kids a good life and use any extra money I have to support my community Bach home remotely and teach my kids to do the same one day.

Your support network back home would love you for it. They need that security of knowing someone outside the remits of their corrupt nation is looking out for them.

Are you in SA too? Why do you think OP should stay there if it's crime-ridden, or are you suggesting she's exaggerating?

That was to @MashedSweetSpud - i swear i pressed the quote button!

Bear in mind that in UK, covid is about to make millions of people unemployed; and we're two months away from a no-deal Brexit whose economic effects are unknown. In other words, there is high unemployment, high social stress; UK is in a period of unprecedented change so is not the UK you left several years ago. UK immigration regulations are also changing fast .

I have to say I’d move back. I have friends who were in a similar situation - also SA- and I remember them saying that everything they had, as amazing as it was, was built on sand and it took one breach of that compound wall to change or lose their lives forever. They moved here, bought rurally and are so happy.

Move back to the UK, without a shadow of a doubt. It will be hard initially, but it will be worth it, especially for your children.

The feeling of safety and being able to go for walks in the countryside has no monetary value. You'll be giving your children a huge gift.

The extreme violence towards ALL women and girls in SA is horrendous. Leave, life's too short.

Come back, without any question. DH is South African, most of his family still there. One of his cousins was shot 16 times a couple of months ago for a few hundred pounds. It's so common it didn't even make the news. The fear you live in is no way to live, especially as your children get older and will be able to have freedom you will never have there.

It really is one of the most beautiful countries I've ever been to, but I could never, ever live there.

Move back to the UK. There was a Location, Location, Location programme about a mature couple from SA (originally from the UK). They made the decision to move back to the UK and to swap their huge, luxurious house in SA for a terrace cottage with a patio garden in a seaside town on the south coast.
They loved the freedom of wandering home from local concerts in the evening and generally enjoying the shops, pubs and community.They had no regrets and felt they had gained so much from the move.

I was born in South Africa and grew up mostly in Rhodesia/Zimbabwe and lived in Zambia for several years too but not recently. The life style in UK is never the same as in Africa (of course). So many people have left/ are leaving SA and Zim. - life there is intolerably insecure and future very uncertain. Zim. is completely ''ruined'' by all accounts. The world is a smaller place now as to where one can go to live. Have you considered Australia ? I think it is a better alternative than UK. I love Melbourne. I have lived in UK for some years but never really settled. I have also lived in Dubai and France. You need to think of your children's future. What will SA be like in 20 -30 years time?

@ConfusedcomMum I lived and worked in India alone for a four month period (my company had a joint venture out there). I felt completely safe. One notable thing - I didn’t feel the same extremes of wealth and poverty that I’ve found elsewhere. There were no gated compounds and swimming pools. The rich Indians I met were all living very quietly and were definitely sensitive to problems of poverty and inequality. The head of our JV had a very modest flat in an anonymous apartment block.

@Cheeseboardandmincepies

I would stay put personally. Surely you knew about the crime rates etc before you moved back?

I know right I was thinking the same

I have not read the full thread but I'd probably go back to the non crime ridden country personally. For me, personal and familial safety trumps most things.

Ahhh this is tough OP. From your post you sound as though you live some where like Nigeria and often the rich what they call rich is different to UK. Not being able to go for a walk alone on a evening with my children alone would of made me think twice in places like Nigeria.

The crime and danger is also completely different to UK too.

Moving is a big thing. A friend of mine is pregnant and the fiancé is Nigerian (lives their always planned not to live in England) the plan has always she would go and move there after finishing studies in UK. I was totally shocked when she now told me she’s not sure about moving their on a permanent basis...

I would move back to UK OP money is not happiness.

I lived in SA for an 8 month period about 20 years ago, if I were you I'd move back to the UK in a heartbeat.

Crime - too high, danger - too high, can't go out easily. Property is cheap for a reason.

I know where you're living very well. If I were you I'd come back to the UK. Yes, it will feel like a set-back but it really is temporary. The financial security you have there is illusory if the economy gets any worse. And you're feeling stressed by your lack of freedom. No amount of money can compensate for that in my view. PM me if you like.

[quote inchyra]@ConfusedcomMum I lived and worked in India alone for a four month period (my company had a joint venture out there). I felt completely safe. One notable thing - I didn’t feel the same extremes of wealth and poverty that I’ve found elsewhere. There were no gated compounds and swimming pools. The rich Indians I met were all living very quietly and were definitely sensitive to problems of poverty and inequality. The head of our JV had a very modest flat in an anonymous apartment block.[/quote]
I've had the same experience in India, which I've visited regularly for many years (it's not my home country btw). Even as a woman, despite the horror stories coming out of there, I move about freely and have only ever experienced politeness and respect. I suppose it depends on where you go, but I've actually been astonished at the honesty of some people. Rich and poor seem to get on quite well.

I come from a similar country and am always asked why I would never go back.

The fact is to me being able to sleep at night even if my teenage dc are out and about is worth more than as any number of housekeepers.

very difficult decision, things are very shaky in the UK and you would be returning at a time where unemployment is going to be high due to covid, brexit issues, tougher immigration etc..it is not as it was a few years ago....good luck with whatever you decide...

I'd consider Canada over the UK at the moment. The shit show we have at the moment is going to get so much worse when a no deal Brexit is added to the mix.

I think I'd come back. My friend came back ten years ago when their home was invaded in the afternoon, while they were having a Bridge party. The initial motivation was to steal the cars but two people were killed in what seemed just for the fun/blood lust of it.

My friend and her husband-no children-arrived in Durham with barely anything but other ex-South Africans helped them out and now they are settled.

Don't wait until something awful happens and you have to flee.

Move now while you can plan it.

Brexit is going to be nothing-nothing-like the dangers in South Africa. I muse at the mindset that thinks it will be.

You won't be in fear of being murdered, raped or frightened to sleep with both eyes shut.

I'd consider Canada over the UK at the moment.

I'd never move to Canada with a daughter. Some people will know what I mean...

Just come back OP.