Please help with this life changing decision

[TravelDrift10]

Hi Mn, i did post previously but am struggling with this.

We have the option to move back to a country that we previously lived in. We moved back to our home country when we had dc and thought it was best to raise them around a good support system. We moved back and that support fell through in a bad way. We have also experienced so much unhappiness here but im wondering if i am allowing these issues to cloud my thinking.

Home country is a developing country.
The biggest PRO is our financial situation. We were able to save alot in the UK, and have purchased our dream home outright. DC(4,2) are going to the best private schools. And we have the best private medical care. Dc school is a 2 minute walk and DH is a 5 minute drive from work. I am a sahm with a live in housekeeper. We are financially free and could retire right now (both 40). My dc and future gc will be financially set up. It sounds absolutely crazy to leave this situation.

BUT

The country is crime ridden. We are able to afford the very best of security and convenience but I will never go anywhere alone with my dc. For most people I know that live here, they go about life because they havent had another experience to compare to. I lived in the other country, and felt safe. I can take a walk to the shop. I wouldnt dream of doing that here. As a female, I wouldnt even dream of going out at night.

Secondly, since we have moved back we have lost so much. Friendships, relationships all non existent. It seems us moving away and coming back to suddenly afford a very good lifestyle created alot of resentment amongst those closest to us.
We also lost a child late into my pregnancy and the reactions from our closest people just broke us.
I feel like there isnt anywhere to turn here, but i dont want to partly base this decision on people who have hurt us.

For us to move back, we would have to give up most of our financial security to start again. And my dc and I would be going over on my dh visa, should anything happen to him we would have to leave so that is a huge risk as well.

Would you give up so much and take this massive risk for a fresh and hope for the best or just stick it out

The past is the past
The present does not seem to be bringing you happiness or contentment.
That leaves only the future. You have assessed that your future in your home country is uncertain.
Seems to me there is only one choice - do the move. You have two huge advantages over the last time you did the move. One: you’ve done it before so have experience. Two: The children - In many ways it will be easier for you to find friends and a support system, having them, as there will be nurseries and schools to sort and all the social opportunities that come from that.

Good Luck, Bon Voyage...and Welcome!

My initial thought was South Africa, too...

Anyone remotely wealthy has to live in Walled compound ... That is no way for anyone to live.

Money in effect becomes a 'Prison'.

What really matters in life?

When push comes to shove, good relationships, health, and safety.

Possessions don't really bring happiness.

Being able to pop out to the late night shop is something most of us take for granted in UK.. That freedom is something that one only appreciates when it has gone.

I would rather be poor in the uk than rich in an unsafe developing country

I would never want to raise my children somewhere that was 'crime ridden' and so dangerous I couldn't safely leave my house. That is no life whatsoever, and will become terrifying as soon as your children become old enough to become independent.

I would choose option 3 - a new life somewhere with new friends, somewhere safe and lovely for my children to grow.

It is easy from a safe place to say it is your perception - but genuinely violent countries are very difficult to live in even in the short term.

It would be an easy decision for me! Safety first.

@AlternativePerspective thank you. We left because with my second pregnancy it was very risky and dh was working insanely crazy hours, we started suspecting my ds has slight additional needs and everything was just overwhelming. We had a home in SA which we kept, could immediately have full time help, my dh was able to take time off from work and were able to reset ourselves. I also suffered with pnd badly after my dd so I guess that it was the best for us to move back. But that was just so short lived.

I would stay. You might not be able to go shops alone but if a random person said to you I will provide you security for the rest of your life, set up your children and your gran children, would you accept? Although you can actually go out, just not alone.

I know people who would give their left hand to be set up for life, especially if that includes future generations, instead of struggling in the rat race only just keeping their heads above water.

I have to say im so emotional reading all your replies. The most support i have received in such a long time. Just having this space to be open and have a listening ear has helped so much.

Just seen it’s South Africa, I’ve changed my mind, I would leave, that’s too dangerous. Move to the U.K. but maybe in the north, you could do well there as it’s cheaper.

Crikey......
Look at what you get in South Africa!
Beachfront views from bedrooms...... £209,000

But look at the security grilles on the windows.......

Also getting settlement status is extremely valuable, as is free healthcare, education and all the rest.

I also think you need to think of your children's futures, what kind of life will they have in your home country? They can't rely on your money forever. I think it would be madness to go back to a developing country and lose your chance of giving your children a safe and settled life with a great future to your children. I would never consider this to be a good move.

The pandemic has obviously been very hard on everyone, and you may think you need to return because you have a better life etc, but will you really if you can't even go to a shop??

Just move to Scotland or yorkshire

Thing is, this isn’t a decision you can purely make from your heart.

While posters here are saying that it’s all about your happiness and money isn’t everything, reality is that money is going to have a huge impact. Last time I checked the rand was 18/1 against gbp, that means that for every R1000 the OP brings out of the country she will have just £50. We’re not just talking having to reduce a lifestyle, we’re talking having to give up a house for nothing. If the OP is lucky she might have enough money to move and to stay here for a few months, assuming her DH gets a job. When she says it would mean starting over financially it would be like becoming bankrupt and having to rebuild from scratch.

Added to which we are in one of the biggest recessions in history - worldwide. Chances are you will find it difficult if not impossible to get another job in a country, any country, where unemployment is now at an all time high.

I can absolutely see the incentive for wanting to leave SA, and I have friends who I have advised to think about doing the same. But it’s just not going to be that simple, especially now.

@TravelDrift10

A family wedding was meant to be taking place in SA.... {Between wealthy Black South African and a British person}

But for women it isn't easy.

The Couple still aren't yet married {they don't live in SA} but people were advised ''You won't be able to leave the venue/hotel, it is just too dangerous''.

Covid put a stop to the Wedding.

White families I knew lived there...I was shocked that they had live in housekeepers, but they said ''It employs local people, it is expected''.

They eventually moved to UK and lived in modest homes. Very modest.

But it meant they were safe.

Come back!

Money isn't everything. Safety and a social network are more important in my opinion. Move somewhere you feel safe being a lone woman.

For the Visa issue, you need your husband to stay alive for 5 years for you to be able stay? I like those chances. But just in case, he should have a hefty life insurance policy considering you're a sahm. Yes it's not nice to think about but it would be awful if he died, you dont need the added awfulness of also having no money.

Anyone remotely wealthy has to live in Walled compound ... That is no way for anyone to live.

Yes that is exactly how we live. As if in a bubble. A big, false bubble. The divide is great here.

I think, as someone else said upthread, I would rather be poor in terms of assets but safe than wealthy and live in constant fear.

As your children grow and learn their independence you want to know they're going to come home unscathed. Children are adaptable. They soon get used to a different situation. If your DH is from the UK and can go there easily, just do it.
Money can't buy happiness, nor can it replace family members.

And people do give up everything they have to escape with their lives, it happens all the time (we're just cushioned from most of it in the UK). There are millions of refugees in the world.

MIL came back to the UK with a suitcase in one hand and a child in the other. She had to leave everything behind. DH had a modest childhood, but he was safe and thrived.

[quote oakleaffy]@TravelDrift10

You say you have wealth and private healthcare &c, and that probably will make people close to you envious.

BUT...... To me, personal safety and safety of my child/ren would be paramount.

In UK, of course, property prices are very high, but I'd rather feel 'Safe' in reduced circumstances than 'rich' but having to live like a caged bird.

In UK one is 'generally' safe as a female walking alone at night as long as one dresses sensibly.

Freedom and health has more value than anything.[/quote]
long as one dresses sensibly???

Please explain what you meant by this? Are you suggesting that if I go out at night with revealing clothes I am inviting men to attack/rape me? You are disgusting!!

I would move back. In a heartbeat.

Don’t beat yourself up for moving home when you did. You made the decision for the best of reasons. It hasn’t worked out. And as you say has now become toxic. Add to that the crime and danger - it’s a no brainer.

I have a friend in SA and they were recently broken into by armed robbers. Thankfully they were unhurt but their dogs were poisoned. It’s no way to live.

If your children are young you will make friends through school etc. And once you children are a bit older and at school you can maybe work too.

Someone up the thread suggested a different country maybe? Are ei5er if you entitled to an EU passport through family? I know a SA friend who was entitled to a Portuguese passport.

What are your occupations? Could Australia be an option?

You say financially in your current country your dc are set up for life but I'm guessing they are only 'set up' in your less wealthy developing country. Their futures will presumably be very much limited to being relatively wealthy in a poorer country.

If you move back, they will go through the education system of the more 'advantaged' country and will probably have far greater options in the future to move anywhere in the world, perhaps back to your home country or other places where their 'first world' income will make them relatively wealthy. Or they can choose to stay in the first world country and benefit from the safer lifestyle with their own families.

Your dc are very young, so changing continents at this age would be much easier than 5 or 10 years down the line when they are fully in the education system. Imagine asking them in 20 years time, starting out as young adults looking for their jobs and opportunities in the world - what choice should we have made? A privileged lifestyle behind security fences in a country with less opportunities or a less privileged lifestyle in a country with more freedom and opportunity?

@TravelDrift10

Anyone remotely wealthy has to live in Walled compound ... That is no way for anyone to live.

Yes that is exactly how we live. As if in a bubble. A big, false bubble. The divide is great here.

A {Male} friend visited NWFP ...He said it was far too dangerous for a lone woman to go to. {Afghan /Pakistan Lawless Tribal areas}

Families lived in Walled Compounds. Armed guards at the gates.
He had to have an armed guard just to be a tourist. {1997} ...Women basically never left the compound, and certainly not alone.

South Africa looks a stunning place...But if you cannot explore freely... What's the point?

Come back, OP.
For me, the most telling part of what you wrote is that you cry with regret at having come so close to settlement status before you left.
There is your answer. Your wealth in SA is not making you happy. Your happiness and safety, and that of your children, is paramount.
Wishing you all the very best

I'd come back to the UK: even with Brexit, it's better than being in constant fear.

I have a friend who lived in SA in the late 90s and came to the UK because SA was too dangerous even then (she was from the US ut had a British husband) - they lived here for 7 years and then went to Australia. If you can come to the UK, do so, even if you just use it as a staging post to somewhere else.

I would stay as I would not want my children to leave somewhere where there are not safe, especially if you have a daughter. You really want her to grow up somewhere where she can't even go and get milk by herself? She deserves better

We have looked at other countries but the process will definitely be a long one and a good few years at that. We have the opportunity to leave in the next year or even sooner to come to the UK .