Do I need to take this further?

[User628394]

Currently in the process of moving house. PILs very kindly come over to help us out with moving boxes etc as I’m 7 months pregnant.

Almost as soon as he arrived, as a ‘joke’ my FIL decided to wrap the cord of our blind around the neck of my cat, who was sitting on the window sill. The cat wasn’t hurt, but had he jumped down he could certainly have ended up hurt or even strangled.

My husband and MIL saw and immediately intervened. Both were absolutely furious, my MIL in particular gave him a real telling off.

This isn’t the first time he’s done something like this - a few years ago my cat was playing in a cardboard box and my FIL stabbed a knife through the box a few times. The box was huge and he was stabbing near the top so was very unlikely to hit the cat, but if the cat had jumped up or tried to bat the knife it could have caused injury.

On both occasions FIL was seriously told off by my (very kind, lovely and sensible) MIL, but he’s always totally unrepentant about it. It’s like he just gets annoyed that no-one else is seeing the joke. He does other mad, impulsive things all the time. If he’s ever helping you put up a shelf he sometimes has to be physically restrained from drilling a hole just anywhere while you work out where to put it, for example. It’s like he can’t resist any kind of behaviour that will get him attention, even if it’s negative, and it’s all a big joke to him.

Now, I don’t know whether anything more needs to be said. My MIL really was angry at him this morning and my husband told him in no uncertain terms not to behave that way, so in one sense it has been dealt with. But I’m also aware that this is a pattern of behaviour with him, and while it’s serious enough when it’s a cat, he has to understand that he simply can’t behave this way with the baby once it’s born. I don’t really trust him not to pull one of his stupid ‘jokes’ which are actually dangerous, but with a baby instead.

So do we need to talk to him about this, or do we leave it since my MIL has dealt with the incident? My husband and I have already agreed we won’t ever let him be in charge of the baby on his own - only when my MIL is there. We haven’t said this to them because I really think my MIL would be devastated to hear it (even though we trust her completely - it’s only him I have concerns about).

aldf.org/article/the-link-between-cruelty-to-animals-and-violence-toward-humans-2/

I would be incredibly wary
I mean it's weird how it's things that could cause damage... a funny joke might be sticking one of those googly eyes on the cats bum, not wrapping a cord around its neck!

I recon it’s an impulse control issue if he is otherwise a good. Likely he has been this way all his life.

www.gracepointwellness.org/3-adhd/article/13850-adhd-signs-and-symptoms-impulsivity

He doesn’t like your cat

Think is OP, it would be all well and good if his jokes were along the lines of holding a glass of red wine over a white carpet and dicking about pretending to spill it. But it's not that. His weird games are with knives and nooses and they have only got to go wrong just once and your cat, or more to the point your baby, is dead.

He sounds quite unwell. I wouldn't leave him alone for 2 minutes with a baby.

He has been like this in the past then why have him over to help? so knowing this sure you needed the help so I would leave it now and just be mindful of his behaviour in the future

It does sound like poor impulse control to me. I recognised the type of behaviour you described in your OP immediately because I see similar in my DS all the time (though we don't have pets, for other reasons). He has Aspergers. He's almost always well-intentioned and it simply doesn't occur to him that things could go wrong. In fact, he'd insist that he had everything under control.
He's also very empathetic, immensely kind and loves animals. But, yes, he certainly has poor impulse control and poor planning.
I'm not sure what the solution is. What was your FIL's behaviour like when his son was a baby?

Don’t leave the baby unsupervised with MIL and FIL, it is a risk.

I accept that he almost certainly would be horrified at the thought of harming his grandchild, unfortunately he has shown that he is unable judge risk safely.

I’ve just turned 50 and this has reminded me how common is was for dads to dangle their babies and tiny children over stairwells, and precipices for “fun” rather like Michael Jackson on the balcony. Fuck knows what that was all about but I’d have had a fit if someone did it with mine, what if someone or something careered into them from behind at that moment? Or they had a seizure?
The cat could easily have lost an eye jumping to “catch” the blade.

Yes he has poor impulse control but his "jokes" risked injury to the cat not to himself. If he was teasing the cat and risking getting scratched, that's lack of impulse control and I would worry less about his lack of it. But he can't judge danger to others. And there's the attention seeking element too, is that just an explanation after the fact or is he is really creating a danger just because the attention is not on him? After all he gets the reward - jabbing a knife into a box with a cat in it certainly got his family's attention.

Undiagnosed condition or not, he's not safe around a baby.

What an absolute nob head.

Aside from the fact he's a complete weirdo that shouldn't be let loose around animals and kids. He would irritate the shit out of me.

[quote TwoLeftSocksWithHoles]@laaalaaaa
Dementure - It's forgetting where you put your false teeth.[/quote]
LOL!

@MountainMert

I agree with *@Busybrain2020*. He didn't do anything that would actually have posed any risk. You don't get his sense of humour? Fine. But your cat wasn't at risk at all and you sound very precious to me.

Fuck off!

Impulse control can also be a trait of ADHD

I know men like this.

My friends BIL held her baby out over the balcony in an 'Oooh, look this is a fun risk to take' as a 'joke' to scare everyone.

Seeing it as an extension of scaring someone with a mask or going Boo from behind the sofa.

He is otherwise a loving uncle.

But this stupid immature non-recognition of boundaries is not acceptable.

I really wouldn't leave your child alone with him and MIL - MIL cannot always intervene fast enough.

I read out some of this thread to DH yesterday, saying that it reminded me of someone. As I read out the first incident (cat & cord), he recognised my father, just as I had.

DH asked if the cat belonged to OP or to them both. He suggested that FIL might see OP as an interloper & resent her taking his son away (a reversal of the classic MIL problem!). Thus he attacks what's hers - which might extend to the baby.

He thought the drilling in the wrong place thing was just like my father. I couldn't quite see that, but my poor DH did once spend two days cooped up with my father doing DIY (which DH hates), & he came out swearing never to do that again as long as he lived! Beyond that, he refused to speak of it to me. And 30 years later, he still hasn't.

I have to say, as a mother of a child with ASD - who doesn't have an intellectual disability, but whose behaviour can be a bit 'off' at times - I am dismayed at the venom shown on this thread. The OP has described her FIL's very ill-judged actions (which did not result in injury to an animal luckily), but has also described him as
a really generous, kind and helpful man usually and I don't believe he's actually trying to be malicious
and
you can certainly tell his heart is in the right place but for whatever reason he gets it very wrong sometimes
and
He was (and is) a great dad

In response many of the posters on here have labelled him as evil, cruel, a sadistic bastard, an absolute nob head, a complete weirdo, as horrible, as psychopathic and someone has even suggested that he's some sort of cat serial killer. Many have suggested that the OP and her family completely cut contact with him.

Really?
His own wife - who probably has some insight at this stage - thinks he may be on the spectrum and some (not all) of the posters here who have experience of ASD or ADHD recognise these sort of behaviours as familiar too.
My guess, from what the OP has said, is that he's not a bad man, but is prone to misjudging what is, or is not, considered appropriate behaviour. And yes, that is something the OP is right to be worried about.
I'm guessing again, but if he were a child today he may have a diagnosis.

And, just to be clear, I'm not condoning his behaviour. Obviously it's not right or appropriate and needs to be stopped, but really, a little understanding that people aren't all the same and aren't all neurotypical wouldn't go amiss. Common sense and judgement and control simply don't come as easily as some people to others. It doesn't make them monsters as some here seem to believe.
If he did have a known disability, would you still feel justified in calling him names?

I suppose what I'm saying is this:
Yes, OP, please protect your child and your cat. A serious talk with him would be a start. Perhaps some counselling for him would be appropriate. And don't leave your child unless you're completely sure they will be safe.

But it's possible to condemn someone's behaviour without condemning the person. Sometimes people need help not censure.

Finally! @LizzieAnt
You speak so much sense, Hope the OP listens to you!

@LizzieAnt, seriously? So, just because he may, or may not, have an undiagnosed issue, he gets a "free pass" to behave APPALLINGLY?

No. Fucking. Way.

OP, keep your FiL away from your pets, your children. It doesn't matter WHY he does it, all that matters is he DOES do it, and the outcome could be fatal or at least life changing for those he subjects his behaviour to.

Not worth the risk.

And as I speak as one who has two diagnosed ASD/ADHD DC (now adult) of whom one did just this, and an (eventially) diagnosed my Father who did worse.

Tbh I don't give a fuck about the reasons , in the specific instances I had to deal with ( much like OP) all I cared about was stopping the potentially horrific consequences of their horrific behaviour

I'm sorry @Catmaiden. I know nothing of your particular circumstances, which sound very difficult. I was replying to the OP's post and she has essentially described her FIL as a kind man who does stupid things.

I never suggested he get a free pass - I think he needs to address his behaviour. However, I don't believe that the name-calling by various posters on this thread serves any good purpose.

I also believe why someone behaves as they do is important. So we disagree there.

Best keep your baby safe and also support him with appropriateness

I'm betting your MIL is very well aware of FIL's odd behaviour and that these are not the only occasions on which he's done these kinds of things.
Your DH needs to have a serious talk with her as she may need some help to cope with him or some encouragement to take him to the GP to see what help they can provide as she probably doesn't know what to do about it.
Its happened twice now and its an indication of uncontrolled potentially dangerous behaviour, you can't allow him an opportunity to do this a third time.

Nope. He’d be nowhere near my cats or my baby
Ever again.

Cruelty to animals even in jest is totally unacceptable And I would tell him exactly why