Do I need to take this further?

[User628394]

Currently in the process of moving house. PILs very kindly come over to help us out with moving boxes etc as I’m 7 months pregnant.

Almost as soon as he arrived, as a ‘joke’ my FIL decided to wrap the cord of our blind around the neck of my cat, who was sitting on the window sill. The cat wasn’t hurt, but had he jumped down he could certainly have ended up hurt or even strangled.

My husband and MIL saw and immediately intervened. Both were absolutely furious, my MIL in particular gave him a real telling off.

This isn’t the first time he’s done something like this - a few years ago my cat was playing in a cardboard box and my FIL stabbed a knife through the box a few times. The box was huge and he was stabbing near the top so was very unlikely to hit the cat, but if the cat had jumped up or tried to bat the knife it could have caused injury.

On both occasions FIL was seriously told off by my (very kind, lovely and sensible) MIL, but he’s always totally unrepentant about it. It’s like he just gets annoyed that no-one else is seeing the joke. He does other mad, impulsive things all the time. If he’s ever helping you put up a shelf he sometimes has to be physically restrained from drilling a hole just anywhere while you work out where to put it, for example. It’s like he can’t resist any kind of behaviour that will get him attention, even if it’s negative, and it’s all a big joke to him.

Now, I don’t know whether anything more needs to be said. My MIL really was angry at him this morning and my husband told him in no uncertain terms not to behave that way, so in one sense it has been dealt with. But I’m also aware that this is a pattern of behaviour with him, and while it’s serious enough when it’s a cat, he has to understand that he simply can’t behave this way with the baby once it’s born. I don’t really trust him not to pull one of his stupid ‘jokes’ which are actually dangerous, but with a baby instead.

So do we need to talk to him about this, or do we leave it since my MIL has dealt with the incident? My husband and I have already agreed we won’t ever let him be in charge of the baby on his own - only when my MIL is there. We haven’t said this to them because I really think my MIL would be devastated to hear it (even though we trust her completely - it’s only him I have concerns about).

Good grief! I think I would sit down with dh and agree a course of action.

For me, that would be one very clear conversation with fil that if there is one single repeat of his ‘jokes’ that he will not be allowed, unsupervised, anywhere near his grandchild. This will include unaccompanied visits to his house, whether mil is there or not.

Depending on the history I would also be considering a GP appointment.

Have you ever had a private conversation with MIL about his frightening behaviour?
I'm afraid I would be telling MIL that you will not be leaving the baby alone with her if FIL is present.

I agree that dementia is a possibility. This isn't normal behaviour from an adult man. I'd be worried having him around a baby.

My 13yr old Son with ADHD can be like this-He does very silly reckless things to get laughs and needs to be pulled back.
I am not sure what you should do, the knife thing sounds way beyond a joke but sadly I can imagine son thinking something like that was funny too, yet cannot imagine him actually doing it!

Sounds like he has some sort or personality disorder or something to me. X

I agree with @CheshireCats. He actually got a knife and stabbed the box the cat was in and then tried to put the curtain cord around its neck. That's stabbing and strangulation to get everyone's attention.
Even if he was OK when your DH growing up, it doesn't sound like he is now.
You are right to be concerned. He's like a toddler acting out due to not getting enough attention when a new baby is on the scene.
I think you and DP should speak to your MIL on her own, from her reaction, he's been behaving inappropriately before she is probably having to deal with this a lot on her own and might need support

Stabbing a box when there’s a cat inside is very disturbing behaviour. I wonder whether you, you DH and MIL are all down playing it slightly because it’s become normalised to some extent?

As you can see from this thread, based on what you’ve posted, objective people find what you’re describing to be shocking and dangerous.

A serious conversation with MIL is needed. I don’t know that I would even feel comfortable leaving a child with her if he was there. As PP have said, she can’t be physically present all the time - she’ll need to go to the loo, take her eye off things to prepare food, etc.

You talk about his inability to assess risk when it comes to tormenting animals for fun. But you need to do a risk assessment of your own when it comes to leaving your child in his and MIL’s care.

I'm going to go against the grain and say that twice he has done absolutely nothing that has hurt the cat. Maybe he assessed the risk better than you. Was his 'joke' funny? Absolutely not. But that doesn't mean your animal was ever at risk.

I agree that dementia is a possibility. This isn't normal behaviour from an adult man. I'd be worried having him around a baby.

He has been like this all the time OP has known him. It's not new or sudden change in behaviour.

He definitely wasn’t trying to actually hurt the cat, and on both occasions the risk wasn’t huge - but equally it wasn’t non-existent, which is why it’s such a big deal.

Plus - cats are pretty long-lived (as long as people aren't stabbing or strangling them), and he is likely testily be pulling this sort of stupid stunt when you baby is old enough to copy it, and your cat is too old to get out of the way easily.

Don't give him the chance to teach your child to be inadvertently cruel.

I'm honestly surprised your husband survived to adulthood - your MIL must've watched them like a hawk!

I'm honestly surprised your husband survived to adulthood

Honestly?

Man plays silly pranks that in no way hurt a cat and now your'e 'honestly surprised' that he hasn't murdered his own child?

@Busybrain2020

I'm honestly surprised your husband survived to adulthood

Honestly?

Man plays silly pranks that in no way hurt a cat and now your'e 'honestly surprised' that he hasn't murdered his own child?

Yes.

@User628394

He definitely wasn’t trying to actually hurt the cat, and on both occasions the risk wasn’t huge - but equally it wasn’t non-existent, which is why it’s such a big deal. He would argue that he knew no harm would come to the cat, and he would probably be right, but of course there is still some risk and he just doesn’t seem able to understand why it wouldn’t occur to other people to take that risk, or why nobody finds it funny.

I’m not trying to minimise what he did - I’m angry and upset, and I want to stop this happening again. But it’s never as simple as saying ‘don’t darken my door again’. Families don’t work that way.

I agree though that at the moment he isn’t getting severe enough consequences, and the immediate telling off isn’t working. So maybe a frank conversation when it’s not the heat of the moment where we tell him his behaviour means we don’t trust him around the baby, will be enough to make the message sink in.

I'm sorry, but you ARE trying to minimise what your FIL did.

He stabbed a knife into a box which had a cat in it. Repeatedly.

He put a cord round a cat's neck when the cat was likely to jump down to get away from him.

He didn't know no harm would come to the cat. He didn't care if it did.

'Families don't work that way'? They do. It sometimes takes a while to get there, but I'm not the only person in the world who ditched their parents (went No Contact). I come from a violent & abusive family. Part of that violence was enacted just like you describe: as attention-seeking 'jokes' which nobody found funny. I sometimes felt that my father looked at a situation, thought of the one thing he really mustn't do - & then did it. That's what your FIL's behaviour reminds me of.

I don't know what to suggest as a solution. I don't think a frank conversation will be enough. Have you ever had a frank conversation with him, where you told him his behaviour was unacceptable & gave him consequences for it (e.g. not seeing PILs for a month)? If so, how did he react? How does he normally react when someone says, "No," to him?

I wouldn't let a baby anywhere near him, ever. But that's just me & highly coloured by my own experiences. Yours may be quite different.

@iklboo

Wow it didn't take long for me to win dementia bingo on this one. Nobody over 40 can ever just be a dick on here can they?

If they're under 40 then Autism is the go-to

Make sure your blind string isn't a loop. Every year a child dies and then the parents start a campaign to tell everyone else not to let their child near it and the following year it happens again.

Either have it as two single strings, a pole or be stringent at wrapping it around a hook.

Holy shit that is scary as hard is it would be. I'd need to tell my MIL of my fears with DC, she might even feel the same. Your FIL needs help

That's really worrying to me. The impulses to do dangerous things alone is bad enough but there seems to be blindness to injury and consequences & failure to learn. Is he sorry ? Why isn't he learning whats acceptable or knowing that things could end in serious harm or worse. That's scary if you have pets or children around him. Your MIL may not be present or quick enough one day ,with the cat or your children & then what. He's 60, so does he work, did he behave like this when he did? Has anyone sat down & read him the riot act & what happened if so?

Almost as soon as he arrived, as a ‘joke’ my FIL decided to wrap the cord of our blind around the neck of my cat, who was sitting on the window sill.

Well he might be on the spectrum or have dementia or some other significant issue but that doesn't make him a safe person to have in the house. He can't be left with the baby or with the cat. Ever.

Whether he "means it" or not his actions have consequences. He cannot ever take the children out (even if his wife is there I do not think she can be relied on to protect your child) and there is no way in hell your child is ever going to sleep over at his house. He may be "fun" but he is a sick puppy and a danger.

Families don’t work that way.

Which is why we have social services and safeguarding. Families minimise. This dangerous behaviour has become your husband's "normal" and his mother's "normal" - they know it's wrong but they don't see how wrong because this is their Dad and husband.

You can't keep everyone happy. You can keep your child (and your cat) safe.

I wouldn't even consider leaving the baby in a room with either of them, possibly consider not allowing them contact with any of you if your FIL thinks it's ok to pretend to stab or strangle a cat.

You seem very defensive of them OP, but honestly if he does something stupid with your baby would you be as forgiving?

Why is a grown ass man so desperately seeking attention like that? He clearly has issues, at best he must be tedious to be around, at worst downright dangerous!

I agree with @Busybrain2020. He didn't do anything that would actually have posed any risk. You don't get his sense of humour? Fine. But your cat wasn't at risk at all and you sound very precious to me.

He didn't do anything that would actually have posed any risk.

Really?

The cat wasn’t hurt, but had he jumped down he could certainly have ended up hurt or even strangled.

So his 'joke' is making out that he is going to kill a living thing, but then luckily doesn't, only because someone stops him. Hysterical, huh?
This behaviour is very worrying in a 10 year old, terrifying in an adult.

@iklboo

He didn't do anything that would actually have posed any risk.

Really?

The cat wasn’t hurt, but had he jumped down he could certainly have ended up hurt or even strangled.

Yes. You've highlighted a quote that shows how hysterical and ridiculous OP is being.

Sounds like undiagnosed ADHD to me

To those saying he didn't do anything that posed a risk, can you actually read? If the cat had jumped down it would have been strangled and it could have been stabbed in the box.

He wouldn't have been anywhere near me or my cat after the first incident!