Pubs V Schools

[Witchcraftandhokum]

I absolutely understand the importance of keeping schools open, but...

I live in an area which is likely to go into Tier 3 tomorrow, I personally know 7 people who have tested positive for Covid. One of which is most likely to have caught it in the care home she works in and 6 of which are most likely cases transmitted in school. I don't know anyone who thinks they may have caught it from a pub or restaurant. AIBU to think that the hospitality sector is being abandoned by the government?

[quote catchingzzzeds]@yoyo1234 the additional cost of sanitiser, cleaning products and increase in cleaners on site is £2000 at my school. No extra funding.[/quote]
Fucking hell. Why the fuck won't they create a cleaning fund for schools ?

Yeah I'm sick tbh of the public being pitted against eachother with ridiculous hierarchy of jobs.

^^ this
Last week it was about people working in the arts sector retraining. I'm not convinced that most pubs are the problem and if they close then restaurants should be prevented from selling booze too

There is no sd in schools! It's impossible. Also it's a message that dc need to be reminded of every day and unfortunately that's not happening. There should be public info videos about corona, with people on icu to ram the message home, what we are doing and why we are doing it.

But there is nothing. All we can do in school is sd, which we can't, open windows, many teachers would rather be the right temperature, than open a window, so fresh air for many is out of the question... So there's not much else people can do, meekly encourage hand-washing in a room full covid breath?

@noblegiraffe

Do people genuinely think that teens are social distancing and not hugging/play fighting at school?

Noble, how compliant are the kids in your school in wearing their masks? Our Upper school corridors are rammed at lesson changeover and I'm fed up of telling kids to wear their masks ( or wear them properly). On a daily basis boisterous kids in busy corridors are barging into staff, and many of them are not wearing a mask. I definitely feel safer in a pub at the moment with all the restrictions in place.

Whether they try and socially distance pupils at school (not happening) you can't control what they do outside. I watched a bunch of school kids catching their train home. The boys were all play fighting and jumping on top of one another and the girls were all clustered in a group chatting. All in the over 14 category I would say. The pubs and restaurants have spent a fortune putting in appropriate measure to keep their customers safe and I think it's a kick in the teeth that they now have to shut early or close altogether.

It's honestly ridiculous people being cross about some teens hanging out together outside when they're rammed into classrooms of 30 and corridors of more.

Why on Earth would they respect distancing outside of school when they have to suspend belief in its importance at school? And why should they? It makes zero sense.

As a teacher I'm finding it irksome having to put a mask on to enter the chemists (size of a classroom, screen up and only two people allowed in) when I'm having to pretend a bit of hand sanitizer has magical powers at work. And I'm an adult

Schools will have to close if enough staff get sick or have to isolate. There is no money provided for extra sanitising supplies, let alone supply cover. My school hasn't been able to afford a supply teacher for years,we just use support staff to cover. However, with bubbles and increased levels of staff sickness/isolation, we're already on the edge of what we can manage.

Firstly that's completely anecdotal and secondly you need to consider the cost and benefit. The cost of closing down schools is absolutely enourmous for education, mental and physical health of kids and will have a massive long term impact. Closing down pubs will have an economic impact but no long term social cost.

I think they need to keep everything open. If we do this yes the infection and probably death count will rise but surely heard immunity will kick in and make it safer for everyone.
Can't keep shutting down and opening up because education will suffer and the economy will collapse. Besides the shutting down /opening up doesn't work.

The pubs and restaurants sound like they’ll be the first thing the government tries to close and then maybe gyms, clubs, beauty industry but I expect if numbers are still rocketing having done that, they’ll have to do something different with schools.

Pretending schools are fine, obfuscating the data (ooh, look at this chart showing something which we’ll imply shows that rates are not very high in schools...) and simply not talking about it will only work for so long.

Noble, how compliant are the kids in your school in wearing their masks?

If the teacher doesn’t let them out of the classroom till they’re wearing masks then it’s good. If they’re supposed to remember to put them on themselves without nagging then it’s not great.

And there’s a small minority of kids who just won’t. Not exempt, just bolshy.

They should keep pubs and schools open. It’s not One or the other

Our schools have been open for a while now, and there have been little cases from them.

I think closing the pubs at 10pm helped, as most people headed home before they became too intoxicated and irresponsible. But this 6pm shutting is poor for the whole hospitality sector.

It's the house party's and large social gatherings which needs to be addressed.

I agree with Rosebel we can't keep closing everything down or the economy will collapse. Covid is serious and can be deadly but it seems that there will have to be a balance between keeping the economy afloat and minimising the death toll without closing everything down.

Of course closing pubs completely will have long term social impacts. People who work in the hospitality industry are losing their jobs in the thousands and most will be out of jobs for the foreseeable. How can you not see that this will have a lasting social impact? My area is still recovering from the social and economic impact of the last recession in 2008 when unemployment skyrocketed. Thousands have lost jobs, food banks in the area can't meet increased demand (not that they should be needed at all), I know of at least 3 long term couples with dcs who have split since lockdown due to job losses and stress of debt and lost income. Thefts from sheds/garages/gardens rose noticeably during lockdown and a couple of local food banks were robbed as people were so desperate to feed their families after losing their jobs suddenly. Yes there are some increased jobs locally in supermarkets for increased home delivery demand but no where near enough to cover the job losses from local pubs/clubs/shops/salons/gyms etc.

Covid isn't being managed in schools. School staff cannot enforce mask wearing. I reckon one thírd of our pupils aren't wearing them, for a number of reasons including children from 3 families who believe masks are 'dangerous'. While we were in tier 1 staff and pupils were not allowed to wear masks in classrooms. Our bubbles are 150, and at lunch we are supervising them whilst eating lunch (obviously mask-free). The correct information isn't being given to staff about other staff or students who have tested positive. If it keeps transmitting in school at this rate, we'll have to close due to a lack of staff. The stress of working in this environment on a daily basis is taking it's toll on staff who feel like they've become collateral damage. Excellent staff are planning on leaving education completely. Speaking to colleagues in other schools this isn't isolated to just our school.

On the other hand I went to a restaurant last night and felt completely safe.

I dont want schools to close. But since returning to school in September I've been amongst 7 positive cases ( In 2 classes I have been left with a handful of pupils!). I know where I feel safer.

It depends on the school though. Infections in our area are high but mainly due to university students.
The three most local secondary schools don't use masks at all during the day (not even for moving between lessons) and my daughter's school has had one case and the other two none at all.
I'm not convinced this mask wearing actually works (although I still wear one when I'm meant to). I'm just really worried that the economy won't recover. I'm lucky that my job is secure (for now) but I worry for the children going through secondary school and university. Will they actually be able to get jobs?

School are being prioritised because of the educational and mental health impact on children. I don't think anyone really believes schools are fully "covid safe". But the majority of children are very low risk for covid so its in their interests to go to school, even if it increases the spread a little bit. Teachers are obviously higher risk as are other key workers but the decision is based on the greater good. For adults, isolating from others is hard and lonely at times but we'll survive. For children still developing social skills, they can't just press pause: they'll never get that time back

I should add, I think secondary pupils are being given way too much freedom. Younger primary school children can't socially distance but secondary school could, yet in my experience they are not

I haven’t seen crowds of teenagers anywhere but I have seen a ridiculous amount of people crammed in and outside an overcrowded pub. My kids school has had zero cases thus far, but I have seen numerous accounts in the local newspapers of outbreaks in bars and working men’s clubs.

No-one wants the hospitality industry to suffer any more, but unfortunately when people have had too much to drink, boundaries and common sense go out of the window. I believe pubs are the cause of some of the issue. They should close until they can be opened safely and distancing enforced.

What's the difference between adults crammed into a pub and kids crammed into a classroom?

I completely understand the logic of that question but I find it difficult to compare the future of our children with having a drink. Our kids will benefit from continuing their education. Adults can meet quite safely elsewhere.

Nobel the difference between adults crowded in pubs and children in classrooms is that the majority of pupils missed over a terms worth of school. They need to be in school to get an education, for older year groups there isn't time to simply catch up later, fine for primary school not so great for years 8 and above . Nobody denied denied the adults inpubs their education so let's not fail our children by denying them theirs. That's the difference.

I did mean in terms of transmission risk. If it is horrifying to see adults crammed into a pub and annoying to see teens in large groups on street corners, then it should also be that the situation in schools is unacceptable in terms of risk.

Pupils at secondary school can't distance. Have you seen the size of their corridors? In what way is it easier for them to socially distance? Not all schools can do a one way system because schools aren't designed that way.
I'm not sure anyone really believed schools would be able to enforce social distancing.