To be really angry that seeing my parents is illegal?

[Snailsetssail]

My area is very likely to be locked down next week. I am so furious that it’s going to be against the law for me to see my parents, and my children to see their grandparents. We did lockdown properly last time, it was absolutely awful. My mental health plummeted and I don’t think I can do it again. I rely on support from family and friends.

Just feeling so incredibly angry about it all tonight. Poor people in Leicester have lived like this for 100 days so far with no end in site.

I’m so fed up and I know I’m going to be told to just get on it it. But I just need a space to vent.

Is it odd that the Government have seemingly no issues at all with people cramped like sardines on public transport in order to go to work. They don’t seem too concerned about “the rona” in that respect. However I can’t see my dd and her boyfriend. There’s a good chance I won’t be able to see them at Christmas either. Obviously not just me there are millions of families all in the same boat.

Oh and Boris dad not wearing a 😷 seems to have been forgotten about very very quickly. Why no fine for him.
Do as I say not as my daddy does, eh Boris, 🤔
If it were an unemployed single parent from an inner city estate she’d have been fined no 2 ways about it!!!!

@Devlesko

Flax

I can't see anyone outside other than my dh who I live with. Can't even meet my gc in the park.
I don't believe any of this bollocks, hospitals are empty, HCP twiddling their thumbs trying to find things to do to occupy their time.
You believe any old shit

Wow, our hospital (NW) was at full capacity yesterday, similar numbers of covid patients as just before lockdown. Itu full.

That means the cancellation of non essential surgery due to lack of beds.

I suppose you won’t believe me though as it obviously doesn’t fit your narrative.

I am in the shielding group and during the last lockdown,I followed the rules to the letter,stayed in for 16 weeks and only saw my Dd once a week;from a safe distance when she popped round to bring me supplies. I never want to go through that again. I'm done with it now.
I would say to anyone who is unhappy about not being able to see their family,go ahead and do it,but do it quietly,don't tell anyone who doesn't need to know and certainly don't advertise it on social media.

"Eat out to help out" was a disaster.
Most places near me were stuffed full of people, not just a few weeks later we are not allowed to visit restaurants at all.
I am coming to care less about rules frankly.

@ancientgran

Personally if my elderly parent was that vulnerable and lovely, they would have moved with me as soon as it was possible however cramped that meant to be. I thought that. If my mum was still alive she'd be with me and she'd been as keen on that as I would.

I think it is all very well people making statements about elderly people not being afraid of death, it's the dying that is the problem. I know my DIL (doctor who worked on a covid ward) and her colleagues have been traumatised by what they have been through. It isn't a question of granny gently slipping away.

Yes this. It's the manner of dying. Covid is not like the painless Dignitas death.

@speakout

clarepetal

Well said.
Many points I agree with- the govenment has allowed thousands of people to stream into the country from abroad unchecked- no regulated quarantine, testing has been a shit show.
I will be happily ignoring advice about not seeing my close family.

Yes. It's understandable that people resent restrictions. They're shit to adhere to, but worth it to save the long-term economy, lives, and prevent many thousands becoming potentially permanently disabled from Long Covid - but pretty pointless whilst we have unrestricted borders and a shambolic test, track, and trace!

@sheepandcow most deaths aren't painless, what's new?

@Letsgetgoing123

For those who disagree with the lockdown and plan to ignore it, and carry on seeing relatives and friends...

I can understand your frustration, but can you please answer these things:

1. What do you think should be done instead to control the rising numbers of hospital admissions?

1. If you are still seeing vulnerable relatives, especially with children who are in school, are you not worried you will unwittingly pass the virus on to them? And what measures are you putting in place to stop this from happening?

Well said.

[quote countrygirl99]@sheepandcow most deaths aren't painless, what's new?[/quote]
I'm referring to the posters' elderly relatives who are apparently ready for death. They may well be but you bet they'd rather take a painless drug they don't wake up from (after saying goodbye and arranging their affairs) over an avoidable drawn out traumatic Covid death. It's actually a shame we don't see the same public support for legalised assisted suicide in the UK that we see for 'letting Covid rip'. It's a much better campaign. Currently only those with money can choose a good death. Going to Dignitas isn't cheap.

@Witchcraftandhokum

It's a farce. I can supervise 150 pupils in one room, mask-free but can't visit my parents.

Have you thought that your parents may not want you to visit them if you’re in close contact with that many people?

Why would you want to put them at risk?

@Letsgetgoing123

For those who disagree with the lockdown and plan to ignore it, and carry on seeing relatives and friends...

I can understand your frustration, but can you please answer these things:

1. What do you think should be done instead to control the rising numbers of hospital admissions?

1. If you are still seeing vulnerable relatives, especially with children who are in school, are you not worried you will unwittingly pass the virus on to them? And what measures are you putting in place to stop this from happening?

Ban meeting up inside, like Sandwell where I am. That allows people to meet up in parks or whatever but stops household transmission.

1. That scenario doesn’t exactly apply to me but yes I am worried about passing the virus on to my family. However when this lockdown is over that will still be the case. When there’s a vaccine, unless it’s 100% effective (unlikely) that will still be the case. The risk of infecting someone with covid will be around for a long time to come and I’m not prepared to wait potentially years without seeing my family.

I’m following the rules because I’m a goody two shoes and scared of getting caught but banning seeing family in any context at all is utter bullshit and disproportionate. I don’t agree with it at all.

@Marmitecrackers

YANBU and I understand your anger. I'm not sure I'd comply to be honest because there's only so much you can take

Only so much you can take? FFS, people love a drama. you are being asked to stay in your warm cosy home, you can go for walks, bike riding, visit a sodding national trust garden. You can get food delivered or you are allowed to go to the shops. You can video call family and friends.

It's not the way a lot of people any to live but Christ, just get on with it. There are few things you can't do really in the scheme of life.

Meet with friends for a nice walk if you can't see them inside (if that's allowed in your area).

Well said @Marmitecrackers

@Letsgetgoing123 lots of people don't have a 'warm cosy home'. For lots of people home isn't cosy or warm or even safe.

I'm not saying I have the answers, but telling millions of people to give up their careers and all human contact for months, or years, on end in the hope of herd immunity which may never come is clearly inhumane and way too much to ask.

I agree with this. The 'lock up the vulnerable and let people get on with it' attitude is so short sighted. I work for a public health project in a notoriously deprived area, and my job is to support vulnerable people. Nearly all our service users have some level of MH issue. My DH is ECV. If I quit because people want to let Covid rip through society, then there's no money to train another person (also, the area is dangerous, so that limits applications). I have just ended my maternity leave early because the service is under pressure to offer solutions for the increasing MH crisis due to covid. But my DH means more to me than anyone, so I will always choose to avoid taking unnecessary risks, including visiting family that are vulnerable, or family that have decided to not follow rules. My own parents are the latter group.

Society is too complex for straight line thinking, and that's probably why we're in such a mess currently. The contradictions and hypocrisy coming from the top has given people reason to feel stupid for following rules. It's all just a mess tbh.

[quote PennyDreadfuI]@Letsgetgoing123 lots of people don't have a 'warm cosy home'. For lots of people home isn't cosy or warm or even safe.[/quote]
Which makes them even more vulnerable to Covid. SAGE has identified poor housing and deprivation as a major factor in vulnerability. Poor MH (including from trauma, i.e. abuse) also increases vulnerability.

@SheepandCow The problem is that marmitecrackers post (quoted with approval) displays a staggering lack of insight into just how distressing and damaging lockdown is for people less privileged than they are. It may be that some less advantaged people are better served by a lockdown overall, but that doesn’t excuse downplaying how horrendous it is with comments like “Christ just get on with it” and “FFS people love a drama” before saying you just have to sit in a nice cosy home and there isn’t much you can’t do - honestly that poster and all who agree with it really have no idea the damage lockdown does to so many people.

A credible opinion in favour of lockdown would acknowledge this and weigh it into the balance. An opinion in favour of lockdown with such an astonishingly glib lack of understanding into what it can do to people has no credibility at all.

@tactum

I don't have a problem at all with people seeing family SD down a garden path, whatever the restrictions are. But I'm suspecting most of the people on here saying they are going to see their parents regardless are not doing that.....they're having hugs, meals, cups of tea inside homes and allowing children to mix. Am I right?

I agree with you.

I’m sure some are being very careful, staying outside, staying distant, bringing own drink etc. I can’t see too much problem with this. Although it will be harder in winter.

But I’m sure you’re right with others, and unfortunately these are part of the problem and why we are getting tighter rules.

Lockdown seems to suit the comfortably well off pretty nicely doesn't it. Meanwhile the rest of us who don't drive and don't have the latest tech and don't have employers who let us work from home will just have to 'crack on' eh?

[quote PennyDreadfuI]@Letsgetgoing123 lots of people don't have a 'warm cosy home'. For lots of people home isn't cosy or warm or even safe.[/quote]
Of course you’re right, and I don’t think anyone would argue against someone who is unsafe in their home or suffering with their MH from accessing help and support.

I think the poster used “warm cosy home” to illustrate that it doesn’t seem a lot to ask of people in the grand scheme of things when there is so much suffering going on elsewhere in the world.

Some people are in favour of a 'full lockdown' as long as they can still have their electricity, water, gas, food, prescriptions, Amazon deliveries, bins emptied...

@WinifredSanderson

Lockdown seems to suit the comfortably well off pretty nicely doesn't it. Meanwhile the rest of us who don't drive and don't have the latest tech and don't have employers who let us work from home will just have to 'crack on' eh?

Strange then that's it's the rich who are most in favour of having no restrictions. Perhaps because of the indisputable fact that the poor and underprivileged are at most risk - of catching Covid, and of becoming seriously ill or dying from it.

So yes lockdown is shit. But then so is serious illness, long term disability, or death.

@FractionalGains
It's the rich right wing who most support no lockdown or any preventative restrictions.

Lockdowns are obviously shit - which is why it's better to do it properly to get it over with. Uncontained Covid is shitter (unless you're rich enough to live in a spacious bubble away from other people with the funds to get through the economic disaster of mass infections).

Doctors and nurses and other healthcare staff have been unbelievably distressed by their experiences of working during the pandemic. There's been an increase in PTSD amongst them.

I don't want a lockdown. Or at least not an ongoing dragged out one. I'd have chosen a stricter but ultimately shorter proper lockdown - WITH closed borders (proper quarantine for essential travel like imports) then easing out of lockdown but keeping borders temporarily shut. That's the quickest and least crap way to return to relative normality and save the longer term economy.

@Lostinacloud

Not going to be told to just get on with it by me. In fact I am willing the whole of the UK population to stop just getting on with it and to push back against this control by fear. How dare any government tell any free individual that they are not allowed to see their own family. I actually cannot believe that people are willingly accepting this no matter what is going on.

It's because most of us understand what this is for. One day you may understand and we'll do our best to keep you alive long enough to grow up and learn these things for yourself.

@SheepandCow I think there’s a lot of people who stand to lose their jobs who are not rich do not support lockdown but regardless, I have no quarrel with your post. You see lockdown as the lesser of two evils and you might be right. I object to the tone of the posts essentially telling people it isn’t that bad and to get a grip.

@LzzyHale

Some people are in favour of a 'full lockdown' as long as they can still have their electricity, water, gas, food, prescriptions, Amazon deliveries, bins emptied...

Wonder what the Amazon delivery drivers, refuse collectors, shop and pharmacy staff, power company workers, and other frontline staff - like doctors, nurses, and other health and social care staff would prefer?

Everyone out and about spreading infection? Or as few people as necessary?
Hmmm, I wonder... Lots of (but obviously not all) essential workers are lower paid....so that will be the people living in high density housing...that's right. The same people at higher risk from Covid.
Yes I can just see them welcoming a completely uncontained Covid.

Meanwhile the rich can hole up away from areas of high density, with their cushion of wealth, to get them through a society and economy wracked with uncontained Covid.
If they need medical treatment, they'll just get on their private jet to receive it in a Covid safe country.

Snailsetssail "I don’t understand how they can make it the law without any consultation or a proper process."

There was a proper process and the MP you voted for had a say in the legislation. They don't have to consult with voters though. No laws are written that way.

"Why can my mum spend all day with other peoples children but not spend an hour with her own grandchild?"

Because they can't write rules for each household. They have to apply across the board. If they could rely on people being sensible we wouldn't need the rules at all, but too many people are pushing to ignore them as it is. It's ok to be unhappy about it, but the rules are there to stop people dying.