Who to choose - aged beloved dad or DH?

[inthekitchensink]

I would appreciate a virtual slap, as my head is boggled and I’m getting quite depressed. And I don’t know what to do.
My dad is early 80s, lives abroad, visits for 2-3 weeks every few months.

I live with DH, Dd (age 4) in a small terraced house. When dad visits we shift everything around so DH works & sleeps in DDs room, and dad has the spare room which is usually DH’s room & office as DD sleeps in with me (we are too old and tired to battle her sleeping in her room for the moment)
Dad is difficult, lovely, adores DD beyond belief. Dh struggles having him in the house, it’s too small, he’s often critical & cantankerous. DH hides in his room/office for the most part but comes down for chats & is friendly, polite and helpful. So big bonus points there.
But, the constant griping to me about my dad is unbearable. He comes to complain to me that he’s a cunt, he’s horrible, he had old man smell, he’s batshit, etc etc and his bad mood becomes so much I’m beyond tense - DH becomes belligerent about everything (only around me) and is painful to be around.

When dad has left, after a few days he is back to his normal pleasant self and I’m a fucking wreck, contemplating separation, and get very depressed.

Yes it’s too long for him to stay, DH asked for a 2 week limit on a visit and I have imposed it but even a week into it he starts to get so mardy.

My dad is old, I want him to move back here & rent a flat nearby so he can see his gd frequently, and I can see him & take care of him. At the moment, I can’t see DH coping with him around the house at all. It breaks my heart, and all the grouching has really affected my feeling for DH. At this point, I’m thinking it might be best for DH to live in a flat nearby, and dad to move in with me & DD. He is old, and starting to mix up his words and I fear a decline in capacity.

Aibu to be thinking this way? Anyone been through the same?

Honestly? It sounds like you're fed up with your not-so-D-H and would like a reason to get rid of him.

The way he treats you, that he sounds horrendously selfish and that you can't rely on him in any way are reason enough.

You are worth enough to leave him, just because you want to leave.

@Itawapuddytat

So your dad paid for your rent in London so hat HE had a place to stay (I imagine he assumed he could come and go whenever he wanted since i was HIM who paid the rent), he owns the house where you live in, you pay him market rent but might end up homeless if the he needs to go to a care home; he spends 30% of the year there (and your husband and your daughter need to move rooms, you do everything for him and he's pretty much doing everything he want; OK, he's 80 now, but was he like this 3 years ago? 5 years ago? 10 years ago?); your dad pays for your flights to travel to see him (does your husband - or you have any say about going somewhere else? or is it assumed you WILL go to visit your father since he's paying for you to go?) . Did your husband actually wanted/had a choice about this house, or was it bought BY YOUR FATHER so that YOU can be the carer of your mother? How about other things, shopping, eating out, choosing what to have for dinner etc does he actually have a choice or is it always what your dad wants "since he pays" and you are very happy to accept it - as it has always been like this for you. I really wouldn't like to be in his position, to be honest. Too much money thrown around and accepted by you, but with plenty of strings attached.

On the other hand, your husband shouldn't say horrible words when talking about your dad as obviously this won't help his "cause" and make you sympathetic to his position, understandingly.

Yes, he has always been like this. We are all puppets on a string as the family says. I’m beginning to climb out of the fog here, and although unimpressed with how DH has expressed himself I’m getting a clearer view of the other side of things. Thank you all.

I don’t understand how you would want to live with your dad and choose him over your DH? There must be other rEason you want to leave your DH otherwise that’s just batshit.

You most definitely didn’t bring this on yourself, OP. You didn’t ask for your mum to be terminally ill, you didn’t invite your dad to use your home like a hotel and you didn’t encourage your husband to behave like an arsehole.

I still maintain that a loving, caring partner would see that you’re struggling to deal with the huge amount you have on your plate and support you in any way they could. He promised you for better and for worse. This is worse and, not only is he not helping, he’s adding to your already considerable stress. A fair weather spouse is worse than none at all.

Sorry just read the previous post, your poor DH putting up with this.

@CheshireChat

Honestly? It sounds like you're fed up with your not-so-D-H and would like a reason to get rid of him.

The way he treats you, that he sounds horrendously selfish and that you can't rely on him in any way are reason enough.

You are worth enough to leave him, just because you want to leave.

Ha, perhaps yes, but I owe our marriage the chance to see how it could be without the extraneous elements that cause such stress. Maybe we can bring out the best in each other again, maybe not, but certainly can’t find out with dad in the house every few months!

Mummyoflittledragon
my husbands been taking my dad out and my mum when she was alive for the past 20 years and is like the son they didn’t have .
He agrees with me that my dad is stupid and at times Avery annoying and will take the hardest way to the most simplist thing.
My dad stayed with us for 3 months after my mum died even though he only lived 10 mins walk away and we talked and looked into building a grandad flat for my dad after he lost his wife of 50 years but my dad decided he wanted to go back to his house

Even though I know my dad drives my husband mad in the same way he can drive me mad he dosent moan and call him a cunt - ( I’m the only one who can say that under my breath 😂)

He knows my dad is my dad and that will always be a big part of my life and because my husband is not a prick and love me he puts up with my dad being a big part of his life even if he bloody annoys him

@SunShinesAutumn

I don’t understand how you would want to live with your dad and choose him over your DH? There must be other rEason you want to leave your DH otherwise that’s just batshit.

Because I don’t want my dad old and alone with no one to care for him. Because DH has at best tolerated (which is fine) and at worst added a heap load of shit on top of me at a difficult time which makes it hard to prioritise him. But I’m going to try. I would not blame him for walking one bit, considering how he feels

@inthekitchensink

There’s a lot for me to think about here, thank you everyone. This is what I’m planning to do. 1) back my DH more and move on from what he has said - he needs his home & family and I need to stop wavering in my commitment to our family. 2) tell DH the way he talk about Dad is unacceptable, and to find someone else to vent to 3) tell dad no more home visits, he needs to rent a flat or a hotel from now on 4) get some therapy to deal with my horrifically entrenched codependency and FOG 5) check out semi independent living for the future for dad near by 6) see if DH and I can reconnect, I have suggested couples counselling but he has refused. I think it would help us as I am terrible at communication as you can tell! 7) tell dad he has to find a way to release any money he has, so he can have himself a proper retirement and a base to call home without foisting himself on family in too small houses 8) try not to have a total breakdown

This sounds like a brilliant plan. It cannot have been easy to admit to yourself what is going wrong in your relationship with your dad. Not having your dad under your roof when he visits will hopefully resolve your dh’s need to let off steam. You are setting some very real and concrete boundaries here. They’ve been a long time coming and you are finally stepping out as an independent adult. It’s time. Do not be deterred. Your dad will probably put up resistance.

@im5050

Mummyoflittledragon my husbands been taking my dad out and my mum when she was alive for the past 20 years and is like the son they didn’t have . He agrees with me that my dad is stupid and at times Avery annoying and will take the hardest way to the most simplist thing. My dad stayed with us for 3 months after my mum died even though he only lived 10 mins walk away and we talked and looked into building a grandad flat for my dad after he lost his wife of 50 years but my dad decided he wanted to go back to his house

Even though I know my dad drives my husband mad in the same way he can drive me mad he dosent moan and call him a cunt - ( I’m the only one who can say that under my breath 😂)

He knows my dad is my dad and that will always be a big part of my life and because my husband is not a prick and love me he puts up with my dad being a big part of his life even if he bloody annoys him

That’s what I want. But I’ve probably put DH through too much with my family by this point.

Hmm. It seems that your home life is pretty complicated.... you are still not sharing a room with DH even though your DD is 4, and now you are considering asking him to move out!

What are your finances like because DH renting a flat would be expensive...
I think your DF has put you in a weird position by buying the house and renting it to you at market rates! He could have put it in your name and then you give him payments like mortgage payments. But now when he has to go into care he will have to sell the house, and you will have to move and rent somewhere else, when all this time you could have been paying off a mortgage!
Why is he worried about inheritance tax for (your brother?) When he isn't worried about making you, DH and DD homeless if you are the one that is doing all the caring for him?

It's ok if you want to make sure the marriage is (or isn't) salvageable first.

You can actually bring it up after discussing with your father about using a hotel etc. Tell your husband that the whole situation has made you reconsider things overall and whilst you were willing to compromise and make things work, he needs to show willingness to do the same regarding the things that don't work in the relationship from your POV- perhaps Relate or something could help?

@VinylDetective

You most definitely didn’t bring this on yourself, OP. You didn’t ask for your mum to be terminally ill, you didn’t invite your dad to use your home like a hotel and you didn’t encourage your husband to behave like an arsehole.

I still maintain that a loving, caring partner would see that you’re struggling to deal with the huge amount you have on your plate and support you in any way they could. He promised you for better and for worse. This is worse and, not only is he not helping, he’s adding to your already considerable stress. A fair weather spouse is worse than none at all.

Thanks, this is what gets me upset, but maybe this I what I would have had if I hadn’t let it go on so long and go so far. Still, now I have a plan!

Op I don’t think you married your father as such..

But it’s possibly you have recreated an enmeshed dynamic in your relationship with both men because of lack of boundaries. Your father taught you how to behave with men... and you enabled your husbands selfishness..

I did that.. and I’m sorry to sound brutal..

The real solution was for me to wake up and realize that I need to be kind to myself and need to put boundaries so that I protect my individuality and independents and be psychologically Safe enough to make choices I truly want and need without the extra burden of FOG that comes with enmeshed relationships.

So the true change needs to start from you.. free up yourself from all those shackles..

Believe me, you are only stuck because you have created a dynamic so that your father can exhaust every last bit of you and leave you with crumbs for yourself... and your DH too.. and now you are having to choose who gets the crumbs and sadly it’s not even you... Or your daughter.

If these men love you they will understand when you tell them that someone is hurting you or stressing the crap out of you or your relationship and that you want to make reasonable requests to meet people in the middle..

Your father has bought himself the right to have it his way in his relationship with you.. which leaves you with no say or choice.. which leave your DH with no opinion or choice either.. which kills your relationship..

You are operating completely out of a feeling that you owe him. He knows this. He is vulnerable and doesn’t want to feel like he is a burden so would rather go with your narrative that you owe him to facilitate whatever he asks for..

You don’t need to make him feel like a burden. But you don’t need to be facilitating his lazy attempt at maintaining a healthy relationship with you...

Your financial dependence on him completely ruined your boundaries. You will need to find a way to redraw them..

But for now, what you need to know, is that your relationship and DH certainly don’t owe it to your dad to have zero choices and opinions in their personal lives.

If I was your dad, naturally, if I needed to live with my daughter and her DH at an elderly age.. I would be putting every bit of effort I have to win him over when I still have the strength..

The fact he is not.. says a lot about you.. it sounds like he is fully aware that you would throw away your DHs feelings to get dads approval. He feels veryyyy secure In expecting that if you.. so he treats him with contempt. Doesn’t feel he owes you to make effort with your DH.

I’m not saying DH is an angel. But he truly sounds like he knows.. you might be in denial.. but I’m sure he sees it clear as daylight.

Partners are there to support us with elderly parents who need us as their kids when they age and terminally ill..

But they don’t have the obligation to support a parentified relationship with a slight bit of emotional enmeshment which crosses the territory of husband and wife.. that IS NOT a FAIR expectation.

Sounds like a deep issue but truly the real solution is for you to clarify that expectation on ur father while he has time to make amends..

The fact you expect him to respect your DH and marriage and house environment... because they are your CHOICE... regardless of what he thinks of them...

You see, how you do that... is by proving to him that you are capable of making choices.

How do you prove that?—- by no longer being trapped in your dads FOG..

————-

Your dad thinks your DH is bullying and controlling because he instinctively knows that’s the kind of relationships you attract and allow for yourself.. because that’s the one you allow him.

That IS WHY.

So just, start very simoly and politely, and kindly, stating expectations.. that you expect your choices In life to be respected.. that includes your choice of partner.. and small things like dinner..

And get some marriage counselling. You need it

@im5050
But your father is not being financially controlling.
When my mother died my father stayed with us for a short while then returned to his own house because he wanted to, he didn't want to feel he was imposing ( he wasn't !) but he also wanted his own autonomy.
Op should of course consider all aspects of her relationship with her DH , and make decisions based on that, but I don't think that posters are being unrealistic in pointing out that her family are indeed 'puppets' to her father and may always have been as she herself has stated , and factor this to her decisions. It may be that after consideration she is happy with this, but she has confirmed that she is now more open to an alternative interpretation of the situation. I wish her all the best and hope that whatever decision is reached results in security for herself and definitely her daughter

im5050
Your dh sounds great and like a keeper. For the brief few years dh and I lived close to my fil, it was much easier as we could see him in small doses. Therefore I had the space to have a much more loving relationship with him precisely because we would go home to our respective homes or overnight visits could be short. He annoys the pants off dh as well btw! 3 months is still really different from having someone coming and visiting regularly... or living with you for years. I have the former scenario, not the latter. It would have been very hard to have fil live with me for a protracted period. But there would have been an end. Whereas this is ops dh’s life. It has been going on for decades and the only end is the ultimate end, which no one really want to think about...

I would never tolerate anyone speaking about my family in such a horrid way. I'd ditch the husband.

You choose your daughter. End of.

Will it cause her great pain to kick your partner out - who is otherwise a great dad and partner? Yes. I'm appalled that you can contemplate 50/50 custody so coolly, just because it might be nice for your dad.

Your dad doesn't come into it. Your child only has one crack at this incredibly significant period of her life. You're a mother first.

FWIW, it's very, very easy to lose all perspective with someone living in your home against your wishes. As awful as your partner's comments are, I'm impressed that he (a) hasn't left when he's so miserable with the situation and must long to for long periods of time (b) is lovely when he is actually there. That says a lot. People have a right to peace in their own home and you've taken that away without a second thought.

Where is your empathy, accountability and compassion as a mother and partner? It's like you're switched off to every other relationship in your life. This makes me highly suspicious of the kind of man your father really is.

This is worse and, not only is he not helping, he’s adding to your already considerable stress. A fair weather spouse is worse than none at all.

I think you need to be realistic about what you can expect people to give. He didn't marry his father in law.

im5050

The difference is that your husband trusts you to not let your relationship with your father ruin your marriage to him. Because you view your father as a human being who needs boundaries.. not as a saint who can take full control and deserves worship.

I don’t think OPs husband has grounds to trust that. There seems to be no room for communication, when the OP has been in denial all those years about the fact she needs to regain control in her relationship with her father which has a power dynamic which is compromising her and her life choices.

Her father might be vulnerable physically.. but psychologically he seems to hold all the power and so as far as DH is concerned, she is the vulnerable one and he thinks he is being supportive by pointing that out.. I don’t think he is handling it well.. but I could only expect him to be fed up if OP has been in long term denial over the fact her father is entering controlling territory.

Sorry OP I’m being brutal but hopefully it will help in the long term.

Op how long has your df been spending such a large period of time living on and off in your home? Has it been like this since you left home and moved to his flat in London?

God what a weird situation! I agree with everything @Harehedge said.
I would have left by now if I were your husband. You don’t seem to have any loyalty towards him or what is best for your daughter. Your father sounds horrid and still you’re enabling him.
Visits that long and frequent from anyone, but especially someone you don’t like and behaves badly, would break anyone down. You clearly have been through a lot and it’s made you lose all sense of proportion and perspective. I think you can still pull this back if you put in the effort. Good luck!

Where is your empathy, accountability and compassion as a mother and partner? It's like you're switched off to every other relationship in your life. This makes me highly suspicious of the kind of man your father really is.

This completely.

OP.. it’s important to note that while you feel DH is lacking empathy towards your struggle with your father.. I think you are not realising how you come across as lacking in empathy and understanding towards your DH and what he is compromising for your fathers sake and getting not much out of it..

So his lack of empathy is probably just him feeling used and taken for granted and not many people like to enable that.

Your DH is being very unpleasant about your Dad, but at the same time I feel for him having to have his life disrupted for such a long time every few months. It seems that your DH is being nice to your Dad, so that is a plus. I think you need to come up with a better solution tbh. Why does your father live abroad if he wants to visit so often - wouldn't he be better moving close by?

I'm clearly in a minority here, but if the person I married was so vile about a parent I loved and wanted to have a relationship with, I would consider I chose the wrong person to marry. If you pick your H over your DF, it sounds like you will resent him and that never really goes away. If my partner called one of my parents a cunt, they would not be my partner any longer. If your dad is your dad, not just a father in name, don't have misplaced loyalty to your H.

This